| Author
|
Thread |
  |
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
well I'm not sure if the game is worth a sub beyond what i've played so far but if i was asked today i'd resub
|
Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:22 pm |
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
ffxiv came out 3 years ago i believe.. It wasn't doing well before because it came out too early with a lot of problems but it's always had a sub fee.. And like I said, you can play WoW without a sub fee too.. There are varying levels of restrictions.
since when can you play wow without a subscription?
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Point being it's not black and white - WoW isn't in some unique position in terms of their business model, other than being filthy rich. There are lots of games that offer similar payment models, including subscriptions.
yes, every game has different payment models and implementations of the cash shop and what they charge you for. but wow is unique these days lasting as long as it has with a required sub fee and no other model. what are all these other games that require a subscription? without including anything released in the last 12 months, what still requires a subscription? daoc and ao don't count. ok, i'll give you ff11. I'm surprised people still play that and I'm shocked anyone would pay a sub fee to play it. what else is there that has an active community that requires a sub fee? if there is more stuff out there, it certainly is the minority. everything has been moving toward ftp for better or worse.
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Anyway, from a business perspective it makes a lot of sense for a game to launch at a premium and then offer alternatives later on when the business shrinks.
yes, that's obviously what happens. that's why games that launch with sub models and switch are looked at less successful and being unable to compete with wow.
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Either way a business model really doesn't say much about the quality of a game. Age of Conan is probably the best-made MMO I've ever played, yet it has a F2P option, not that many people play it, but it's still around, people are playing it, it's not dead. And it's better than WoW in just about every way. Someone wants to shit on it and say it's dead, who cares, i'm playing it..
no one here has ever argued that a ftp game is inherently shittier than a sub based game, or that wow is the best mmo. I grew tired of wow years ago and there's a whole host of mmo's that don't cost money I would play before wow. eq next is going to be ftp from the start. who knows if it will actually be any good or deliver any of the stuff the devs are promising, but if it does, it will be a great game.
|
|
Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:47 pm |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
you can play WoW for free as long as you want up to level 20 and have been able to for a few years.
EVE is another example of a sub MMO..
Alganon is another one that comes to mind..Asheron's Call 2 is still around and requires a sub...
Allod's Online went from being a cash-shop only game to offering a subscription-only service.
how many more examples do you want?
|
|
Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:38 pm |
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
you can play WoW for free as long as you want up to level 20 and have been able to for a few years.
EVE is another example of a sub MMO..
Alganon is another one that comes to mind..Asheron's Call 2 is still around and requires a sub...
Allod's Online went from being a cash-shop only game to offering a subscription-only service.
how many more examples do you want?
What the hell lol you were talking about wow's free preview? That's hardly being able to play the game without a subscription. Eve can be played fairly easily without paying for the sub. Asherons call is another old ass game no one plays and I've never heard of those other two games.
Ok, so actually only like 99% of the market besides wow and the newly released ff 14 has some form of the FTP model. There are apparently a lot of old and obscure niche games that people pay sub fees to play.
|
|
Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:00 pm |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
I'd say about 50% or less of the market of MMOs don't offer some form of a subscription and of the ones that do, they all offer some level of entry exactly like WoW does with it's 1-20 free plan to varying degrees. Some make you immediately feel like you have to subscribe, others let you play for 6 months before you hit a pay wall, and those ones usually have very high end-game prices.
So you're wrong.. WoW isn't in a league of it's own when it comes to their business model and what they're able to charge people.
What is the case is some recent big budget games went F2P because of high dev costs, and gradually declining subscribers and investors saying "Shit, it's gonna take us x number of years to get our money back. Let's try something else" - That realistically has nothing to do with a game's quality nor should it really have any reasoning involved with how a game is perceived by a customer.
When you say "yes, that's obviously what happens. that's why games that launch with sub models and switch are looked at less successful and being unable to compete with wow."
that's exactly what I have painstakingly counter-argued in this entire thread - yet you're still here spouting retard bullshit. I guess I know not to bother next time.
It's like people think when a new MMO comes out that every single person playing WoW goes "Hmm.. maybe I should try this game instead" - The VAST majority of people that play WoW don't give a fuck about a new game coming out unless it's WoW 2. Any new MMO coming out is going to stand on it's own legs and carve out it's own audience. 90% of the people that play WoW would fucking hate SWTOR just on the principle of it being Star Wars - and those same 90% would hate TESO because it's some nerdy high fantasy shit. Same with Rift and every other major MMO - which is why they've all "failed to compete with wow" when in fact they never were competing with what WoW is.
|
|
Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:26 pm |
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
I'd say about 50% or less of the market of MMOs don't offer some form of a subscription and of the ones that do, they all offer some level of entry exactly like WoW does with it's 1-20 free plan to varying degrees. Some make you immediately feel like you have to subscribe, others let you play for 6 months before you hit a pay wall, and those ones usually have very high end-game prices.
So you're wrong.. WoW isn't in a league of it's own when it comes to their business model and what they're able to charge people.
you're totally full of shit and have no idea what you're talking about. 50% my ass. you're a retard for even mentioning being able to play wow from 1-20. that's a free preview. really, when an mmo has a 7 day preview, does that make the game playable without a subscription? why you would even bother saying that I have no idea.
but oh yeah, there are so many games with subscription fees people are playing. darkfall, alganon, allod's online. games with subscription fees are totally thriving.
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
What is the case is some recent big budget games went F2P because of high dev costs, and gradually declining subscribers and investors saying "Shit, it's gonna take us x number of years to get our money back. Let's try something else" - That realistically has nothing to do with a game's quality nor should it really have any reasoning involved with how a game is perceived by a customer.
When you say "yes, that's obviously what happens. that's why games that launch with sub models and switch are looked at less successful and being unable to compete with wow."
that's exactly what I have painstakingly counter-argued in this entire thread - yet you're still here spouting retard bullshit. I guess I know not to bother next time.
you can painstakingly counter argue something all you want, but it doesn't make you any more right. like I said, a game's pay model doesn't necessarily reflect it's quality. but when a themepark mmo comes out in the same vein as wow with a sub fee and ends up going ftp, what do you think that looks like? that's not to say though they still don't make money or continue to have some success. but they obviously weren't making it with a sub fee. there's also somewhat of a difference in audience targeting with games that launch ftp vs having a sub fee.
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
It's like people think when a new MMO comes out that every single person playing WoW goes "Hmm.. maybe I should try this game instead" - The VAST majority of people that play WoW don't give a fuck about a new game coming out unless it's WoW 2. Any new MMO coming out is going to stand on it's own legs and carve out it's own audience. 90% of the people that play WoW would fucking hate SWTOR just on the principle of it being Star Wars - and those same 90% would hate TESO because it's some nerdy high fantasy shit. Same with Rift and every other major MMO - which is why they've all "failed to compete with wow" when in fact they never were competing with what WoW is.
you're an idiot. that's exactly what it's like. there are people that play mmos and people that don't. I don't know a single person that has only played a single mmo. everyone that plays mmo's is always interested in the new next thing coming out. and yes, everything that comes out with a sub fee is going to be competing with wow and attempting to take away some of its playerbase. you really are a fucktard for not realizing this. how many people currently playing final fantasy 14 do you think have never played wow? since nothing that's come out has really improved upon the wow formula much, many people end up playing wow again, and it's stayed the most successful.
I guarantee you if something like eq next came out and was actually "revolutionary" and an amazing game that blew everyone's socks off, wow's subscriptions would drop like a rock and people would switch. instead, we get shit like teso and wildstar that temporarily leech wow's playerbase for a time before they end up going ftp.
|
|
Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:08 pm |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
Sorry pal but you are in the minority in terms of MMO players. There's a vocal minority of MMO vagrants that wander around trying every new game that comes out and say stupid shit like you do and shit on every new game because it's not as satisfying as their first experience in an MMO. There's a lot of you, but you're the minority in relation to people playing MMOs.
There's millions of people playing WoW and many other games that don't give a fuck about any of the things that you or I do. You're a hardcore gamer. The vast majority of people that play MMOs aren't.
And a game like TESO is going to attract a LOT of new players that have never touched an MMO, same as Final Fantasy XIV - which is why I think they'll both be massively successful as subscription based games even though neither of them will have anywhere near the #s that WoW does and will continue to have. They'll carve their niche just like the other dozens of subscription-based MMOs out there have and continue to do.
|
|
Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:52 pm |
|
|
hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
|
http://www.pcgamer.com/review/the-elder-scrolls-online-review/ lol the nerd rage in the comments is amazing
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
|
|
Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:49 pm |
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
hiring all those stupid high priced celebrities to do shitty voice acting is beyond idiotic. they could have hired more game designers for 100 million and made the best game possible.
first few comments are about how they and everyone they know has played it since it came out and are having a blast. lol and it came out 10 days ago.
|
|
Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:27 pm |
|
|
hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
|
http://imgur.com/a/1C8mD lmao
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 6:38 am |
|
|
hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
|
It's also possible to be infected with vampirism or lycanthropy and gain access to new skill trees with appropriate benefits and drawbacks. This is a nice idea, and demonstrates the versatility of the skill system. It does, however, have an amusing and detrimental effect on the game's tone: vampires and werewolves can pass on their curse to other players once per week, and it's common to see players in cities offering large sums of money for the chance to get bitten. The idea is fine on paper, but crumples when exposed to actual players.
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 6:43 am |
|
|
ArchAngel
Joined: 18 Nov 2000
Posts: 2826
Location: Rochester, NY, USA |
thats the problem I had with Skyrim that all the caves and dungeons were the same and the combat was so bad. there was no feeling of impact on hitting enemies. they did all that work on making the world look beautiful and then they go and copy/paste dungeons. feels like they undermined themselves completely.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 8:28 am |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
http://imgur.com/a/1C8mD lmao
Is that really lmao worthy. I mean, don't you ever call 1800 #s for support? nobody does customer service/support the right way.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 12:28 pm |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
You've gotta remember that you're probably only going to encounter 1/3 of them, they're all decorated differently (we're just talking about geometry here) and have different objectives/stories
It'd be nice if they were all unique but complaining about that is like how CoD players complain that the sequels use the same textures for a lot of environmental areas.. like they should revolutionize a cement wall texture every new release they make.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 12:32 pm |
|
|
ChrisLui
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 2688
|
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
You've gotta remember that you're probably only going to encounter 1/3 of them, they're all decorated differently (we're just talking about geometry here) and have different objectives/stories
oh so at least you're not literally repeating the exact same quest 70 times. sick
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
It'd be nice if they were all unique but complaining about that is like how CoD players complain that the sequels use the same textures for a lot of environmental areas.. like they should revolutionize a cement wall texture every new release they make.
ya it would be nice if they spent some of their money on making the game interesting. but whatever
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 1:33 pm |
|
|
hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
|
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
You've gotta remember that you're probably only going to encounter 1/3 of them, they're all decorated differently (we're just talking about geometry here) and have different objectives/stories
lmao
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
It'd be nice if they were all unique but complaining about that is like how CoD players complain that the sequels use the same textures for a lot of environmental areas.. like they should revolutionize a cement wall texture every new release they make.
this is a good point since call of duty is a series with a reputation for every game in the series being new and interesting and a big leap in the one before it
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 1:52 pm |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
I'm just saying that it's not something where you'd probably ever consider a big issue, it's like learning how a magic trick works and going to a magic show complaining that it's not real magic.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 1:53 pm |
|
|
hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
|
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
I'm just saying that it's not something where you'd probably ever consider a big issue, it's like learning how a magic trick works and going to a magic show complaining that it's not real magic.
maybe you won't notice if you're actually retarded
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 1:54 pm |
|
|
hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
|
like arch said about skyrim, all the dungeons in that game were kinda similar with a few exceptions. but at least, as far as i know, they didn't just copy and paste a single dungeon layout several times over, they may have been small and boring (again, a few exceptions) but they at least were unique. unbelievable laziness. this game took 7 years to make, lol
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 1:55 pm |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
i would wager they used the same system for skyrim as eso in terms of chunking together pieces of geometry and then producing the content for them. It'd be nice if they literally created every square inch of the world from scratch but I'd wager 90% of the people playing the game don't log in and slam their computer monitors against the wall because the dungeon they're in doesn't look 100% different than the last one.
I mean, the entire world is uniquely designed - and some of the 3% of the instanced overland dungeons share some similarities in how they're layed out and so you're bitching that like 1% of the game world is marginally similar.
|
|
Sun May 04, 2014 2:26 pm |
|
|
ArchAngel
Joined: 18 Nov 2000
Posts: 2826
Location: Rochester, NY, USA |
thats the point im making that they undermined themselves. why take such time and detail in the world and then go and do that with dungeons and caves and such? what is the point of that? I was a brand new player to the Skyrim series of games and I noticed it right away. After 3-4 dungeons. It's noticeable even to a new player. The same with the voice actors. Cant hire a few new people to voice your game better? It's just laziness and that comes across in their final product.
and the combat is shoddy. its god-awful. you swing through the air and slash an enemy but it doesnt do anything. it feels wonky and dumb. even FPS's deliver more punch with melee weapons.. look at bioshock with the wrench. it was unsatisfying to the highest level.
|
|
Mon May 05, 2014 8:28 am |
|
|
hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
|
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
i would wager they used the same system for skyrim as eso in terms of chunking together pieces of geometry and then producing the content for them.
assuming you're right, "just as good as skyrim" is pretty bad for a mmo since skyrim wasn't anything that great to begin with. all your numbers ("3% of dungeons") seem pretty made up though. and uh yeah, people probably aren't smashing their monitors finding out they're playing through copy and pasted dungeons, but they're probably disappointed! metacritic seems to back this up http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online critic AND user scores both seem pretty low for a big shiny AAA title
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel
and the combat is shoddy. its god-awful. you swing through the air and slash an enemy but it doesnt do anything. it feels wonky and dumb. even FPS's deliver more punch with melee weapons.. look at bioshock with the wrench. it was unsatisfying to the highest level.
to be fair this has always been a thing with elder scrolls games, past games like morrowind made up for it because the focus was more on exploration and customization (in terms of things like magic and crafting) and the world and game systems were so deep and interesting. oblivion and skyrim made marginal but not big improvements to the combat while sucking all the life and flavor out of the world and environments, so you get the worst of both worlds
skyrim does have a few decent setpieces, and the world itself is pretty gorgeous to look at from afar or from a mountain peak, but when you actually get down to those caves and dungeons and towns the actual places and the things to do in those places are painfully boring and generic
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
|
|
Mon May 05, 2014 8:39 am |
|
|
ArchAngel
Joined: 18 Nov 2000
Posts: 2826
Location: Rochester, NY, USA |
I have been reading all sorts of reviews for this game and holy shit they are all bad. What a shame. I was actually considering picking up an Xbox One just to play it with my dad cause he's big in to this series. I dont even think you can do that though. what the fuck were they thinking releasing this like it is?
are you still playing it turtleman? can you share some insight as to why a new player would want to play this and not wait for warlords? Im not subbed to any MMO's right now and blizzard's content and game right now -really- is not worth 15$ a month. I think new MMO's are in a pretty miserable state. They kind of all have to piggy-back off WoW because it was successful but this game went in the opposite direction. but WoW is losing subs in droves. hundreds of thousands of players migrating away every time they post subscription numbers.
there are certain aspects an MMO needs to hit perfectly and one of them is the concept of playing with your friends. but from what I'm hearing is that quests cant be shared unless people are on the exact same progress and that they kind of tried to deliver a multi-player game in a single-player feeling and kind of failed at both. and I dont even want to get started on the combat again.
It's Dark Souls 2 until Warlords it looks like. and Im still on the fence about buying that expansion.
|
|
Sun May 25, 2014 9:05 am |
|
|
turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
I haven't had the time to play it, I cancelled my subscription. I was just digging the whole experience - I played it like a single player game.
|
|
Sun May 25, 2014 1:51 pm |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
triple post
|
|
Sun May 25, 2014 4:56 pm |
|
|
Warcraft Occult Forum Index
-> General Discussion
