Most players get 4, move to 5, and put their hall in the right spot. Now, I don't know if Axo or kith do this (doubt it). but moving to 5 is much better than staying at 4. Most elite players would agree with me on this. WHat I hate is when you get 4, move to 5, and someone already has their hall there. Its automatic game over. So I posted this to see what Axo would say, (obviously hes gonna say dont move) But either way you lose, because 5 is going to own you in the long run anyway.

well u can still win if u move to 5(of coarse it will be very difficult). just put ur hall in the old place and then get a catapult immidiately. i've won several times doing this against the 'elite' players.....and moving 5 is way smarter than staying 4 unless u'll dual. for example, i got so mad when oddeye & i used to team & i would have 8, of coarse dualing s9/9...but oddeye would have 4 and complain he can't rush from their so we're owned. and it's like 'wtf move to 5' but he doesn't understand i guess

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Warcraft Haven -- The ULTIMATE Warcraft Resource: http://wchaven.wcnation.com

Here's an old e-mail from axo. It's for s9 but i think it helps for gaying in general.

> Awhile ago on 24-7 Q/A i posted:
> Question
> If you got 8/6 and he got 8/6, (and ya both moved to s9) how do you kill
> him? In other words is it better to wall him so that he cant get to the
> mine, or so that he can't get out of the mine? If u understand this plz help
> me

To begin with...the person who moves there first (8) should win
almost all of the time. I'll deal with , if you were there first.

You have 2 options for placing your hall. In the middle of that
little outcropped of trees so your peons pop above it (where
most people put it), or down so you have 1 space between
the trees and your hall, and 2 spaces from your hall to that little
group of trees. The enemy has 2 options for his hall in each case.
Above or below your hall, depending on where you put yours,
or to the left of your hall.

You should wall them away from you as soon as you can.
This is usually possible with your first farm. If they build the
hall on your left, than it may take 2 buildings (preferably 2 farms
because you might lose them).

Now you both have several options.
Guard towers...
Cannon towers...(watch your backside)
Cats...
Keep in mind...High Resources are ALOT of resources.
You might beat him back, and think he's gone and then all of
a sudden he has a cat on you.

Your best bet is to get a guard tower up, preventing him from
towering any closer to you, and start a cat as soon as you can.
Repair all of your buildings to get your cat started.

If he cannon towers into you...your guard tower will slow him,
but not stop him. Your cat will be done before he can break inside
(because cannon towers will target the hall).

Another option is to upgrade a cannon tower (usually works
when you walled him in needing just 1 farm). Put up a cannon
tower as close as you can to him. If you get it up fast, and can
repair etc (ie he can't kill it), then he is forced to tower you from
the back, or get a cat himself. Just repair everything else like
before and get a cat. You are mining and he is not.

I don't suggest getting a cat without 1 tower. An enemy that
goes 5-6 guard towers can kill your hall before your cat can
defend it.
You don't want to over do the defense just in case they hardly build
anything and just take another hall (6 or 9 usually).
You'll find a well placed cannon tower will own alot of people,
because 90% of people go with the mill .
Just keep it 4 spaces off of his closest tower spot (hall size)
and his guards will never be able to hit your repairers.

Another way (really owns them):
If his hall is built above yours (you build yours low)..your first
farm will wall him in. He cannot block you back to your side with his
first farm. Build a barracks now, 1 square off to the left of his
hall. This causes:
1)him needing to build a wall to hop peons to your side.
2)him having big worries about your barracks there.

Same applies if he's below or left of your hall. Wall him in,
and then stick a rax 1 square away from his hall.
Forces him to need walls to hop back around...and he needs to
worry about grunts if he tries to cat or tower.

If he towers the rax, cancel it just before they are upgraded and
move it over. I've killed many many cats like this.

Now...if you are there 2nd, you are probably in for some hurt
if it's anyone decent.

A really scary option I use sometimes is to build my hall way to the
left if they did not see my peon. I just go 5 peons (hall, farm, mill
rep), and repair a bunch of towers up before they know what's going
on. If they didn't see you they will scout up first, as most people
do. They will get owned.

If you get walled out with his first farm...see if you can pop his
peon back to his side with your first farm. If you can, then
you can try going heavy guards, again you only need 5 peons.
A cannon tower...for a defender going guards. This will surprise
and hopefully take out all of his towers ( AGAIN, hall, farm,
smith , repair...since you are already behind). Or you can repair
all the buildings you need and get a couple cats...just don't let
any grunts or peons chop or get in.

If you can't pop his peon to his side then you are going to have
to be really creative. Try to pop a peon around and rax his line,
or slow him as much as you can and expand. Stick 1 guard tower
on his rax if you are going to expand to save all of your farms, and
whatever other buildings are there.

Remember you can tower the backside of the mine.
Seems to work best when you go hall, farm, smith, walk peon
behind there, repair smith, repair smith.

If you can wall him from the mine as well..then it probably will end
up being a cat war.

Well I think that's it for now. It's alot but there's so many friggen
options that I've hardly covered anything.
I've won s9 wars by hopping peons over my farm and walling
in his cat where it took splash damage from my cannon.
It's really a complicated war.

Note: 1 cat shoudlnt kill a cannon tower. Just repair it on the side
where you don't take damage. If you do take damage, repair it
with a bunch of guys in between shots to buy you time.



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- SaBiQ

Sabiq I dind't ask for your opinion on s9/s9 wars, I could beat you easily in that. What you don't understand is when you move to 5, someone is already there with the hall on the side. THis forces you to put your hall in the old position. Going for a cat wont work vs a good player. He will peon hop his way into your side and either make a rax, or build a farm somewhere to keep your cat contained, or whatever. Something that would make you lose. It's impossible to win a 5/5 when moving from 4 and being forced to put your hall the old way. You are just way too behind. I knew axo would saying something like "i win when im at 4 and hes at 5" but okay.. I would like to see you beat me from 4 when I'm at 5 Axolotl.... 99% of the time 4 gets owned by 5. Sorry.

did u read the first line of my post -
"This is for s9/9 but i think it might help in general." Also summ, your a fag - People try to help you and you flame them....? gw.

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- SaBiQ

Hrmm 4 can own 5 pretty easily cuz of tower "bug" (if thats what you wanna call it) and such. I played a bunch of games last night and the night before and I moved to 5, I actually had one game where I was 5, had my hall off to the right and the guy came over from 4. He went to s5 and got wrecked pretty hardcore. =/ Best thing I could say is if you moved to 5 and someone has their hall like you like it. Then put yer hall above his repair a smith get a cannon, above his (do it fast or his guards will take yer cannon down), then get a grunt or two to take out his cat he'll try to get. Then if you don't have enough for another hall, you can at least start chopping from above 5 to the mine, plus you'll have a grunt or two to scout around for his expansion mine. Make sure you wall the top above 5 with the hall and the smith, and keep your rax within range of your cannon so you don't lose it. Moving back to 4, or moving INTO 5, or s5 aren't options so you may as well try this, see how it works. Guards would get owned too so don't bother with those, because he could get them faster than you.

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-Kith-Kanin-

sabiq i don't need your help.. you're a newbie. no offense. putting the hall above 5 sounds interesting, but a good player will wall off 5 and get a cat , grunts wont stop it. when he has his cat, you will lose all your farms, that hall, and the smith. that would kinda hurt, and it would still lose. Hm, and as for the tower bug, if he has his hall off to the side, where are you gonna tower? to the right? that wont work, his peons and grunts will rip that apart and you'll find yourself at 4 with grunts all over you and an OT on your own gold.

heh maybe your right summoner but i do the best i can

But your saying if they move they will get owned..which they will. Especially when you put your Hall to the right (the new way), which they will.
So why move if you say this? Woulnd't that mean you have a better chance if you stayed?

Sum, I think your latest strategy worked good, just leave the game as soon as you see my hall there. =\ If you wanna practice gow neighbor and work out some good strats, we can hook up sometime and play some fixed order games. Going to action is always better than forums, strategy pages, and game watching. More fun too.

viperblade

gow 4:00 ownz pos 10:00.....

if you move to five, and someone is already there, just make sure not to let him get out, farm him in, but make sure that you have something poping out inside the boxin, to cause havoc inside. I havent played old gow much lately, but i remember someone moving in on me from 4, he was good, but i setup guards inside, and outside boxin, and sealed his hall and peons in, so he couldn't get out, but who knows, i was called a newbie today, so

the reason for moving to 5 is to be able to mine gold faster without needing to do all this "preparing" for fast gold, and a much better placement.

summoner the cat idea WILL work - you get a Guard Tower also, not just a catapult. a guard tower kills hopping peons, keep it out of their tower range. i think that's pretty basic. kith has an odd idea which i am going to try, but i'm not so sure how effective this truly will be ;]

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Warcraft Haven -- The ULTIMATE Warcraft Resource: http://wchaven.wcnation.com

I stay at 4, Kith moves half the time.

5 owns 4 in a neighbour war usually, staying or moving. But I have a really good winning percentage of beating 5 from 4 in neighbour wars, so staying doesn't concern me that much.

u guys are misunderstanding, its easy to win 5/5 if u move there and their hall is in the old position, if they put it on the side, you are fucked.

Well actually i have owned many people moving to 5 from 4 and they are at 5. I actually owned one of those CrapetEngage guys there. I moved to 5 blocked him, and towered him, he got a peon out, but so did I, we both had to move, but i was stil getting lumber from 5 with 2 peons, because he couldnt destroy my mill. and i moved to 11 while he moved to 3. He got grunts from 3, and i powered from 11. He expanded to 12, but i owned it with some grunts i made from 5. It really just depends. VS a super player, im sure you would get owned, But if you are any good, you can own them too, so i think its impossible to beat someone already at 5 if you move there, but you can force them to move, and you move yourself, and you have a chance.

Thats why you put yer rax deep inside their base summoner (preferrably somewhere where it'll cost a lot to wall the grunts, or else cost a lot to tower it). Bring two peons into his base. The only other way is to walk slower when you move to 5. That is, make sure you stop just within peon range of where the hall would be (so he doesn't see you), then if you put your hall up above he'll get fucked in like two seconds with 5 peons and guards because he will check 4, and by the time he gets around to s5, you'll have your towers upgrading).

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-Kith-Kanin-

Well i may be strange but in my experience 4 completely slaughters 5 in a gay war.
I rarely lose to 5 when im 4 in a gay war...
i stay at 4 and i dont lose..
lalal how many times can i say it staying 4 is just fine...
I also was one of the first ppl to start moving to 5 from 4 and when everyone started makin the hall to the right it became obvious stayin at 4 is the better solution.

I use to dual to 5 like that when I wanted to rush so I could wall the bottom with a smith. This was like 4 years ago. =/

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-Kith-Kanin-

Alright. So I'm at 5... Exactly WHERE does the hall go now? The little woody outcrop always seems to give me trouble when I try to do anything except the "old" position, so I'm putting it in the wrong place. Does it go directly below the little wood place? Thx

Strategy questions are stupid! Nobody does the same thing again and again. You cant get an accurate answer on this topic.

Anyway, back to the topic. Id say, stay at 4. You can easily gay someone at 5 from 4 even if he puts his hall at 5 on the old position or the right side.

But heck, thats just my 2 cents and yaya, ima scrub but who cares?

I guess you guys think people are stupid when you answer strategy questions.. Valkrie said he never loses to 5 when hes at 4. Why is that? I know I'm not stupid enough to die to the same thing twice. Yes I realize theres a way that you can block 5's hall on the side so his peons come outside, then you just tower him in, but then you die at 4 anyway, if 5 puts his farm right, u will need 3 peons to do that. 2 peons to block him in, but that wont work, since he'll just make peons inside and kill that shit. If you rep a mill then send 5 peons to tower, that wont work either, because by that time, 5 has his rax done and probably about 6 peons when u get there. If u do like kith said and make the hall above, 5 will just wallin, get a cat, and kill your towers, this leaves you with a hall that has no access to a goldmine. If you see hes at 5, then wallin and power. Then its different from there, but you cant say you never lose to 5, because different things can be done. (Yes i know about the get a cat inside, then chop out rush). If you try something really stupid like walling above 5 and catting him, 5 ends up getting a cat, and while his smith and mill are building, he is making grunts which are going to rape 4, since all your peons are behind 5 now. And you guys dont even take into consideration that 5 might still end up peon scouting 4, which will really fuck you up if he's smart. I don't know, I just wanted to point out the inaccuracy of valkrie saying he never loses to 5 when he's at 4. This isnt meant as an insult, but I still believe 5 > 4 =).

PS, People started moving to 5 about 2 years ago. The first people I saw put their hall on the side was Cloud=X= and Blizzz.

Summoner, I don't understand why you asked this question when you seem to have a negative reply to anything thats suggested. You can either stay at 4 and not move to 5, or else try walling in a tower and get grunts above the guys hall. You seemed to misunderstand me. I said you wouldn't even be getting another hall. You'll chop into 5 from above. So you don't need to worry about dying anywhere else. Just kill 5. Its easier than you think because most people build their farm like you do, so that makes it so you can put a rax inside and he'll need a ton of buildings to pop grunts out, then repair yer ot's and use the grunts to kill his cat. It can be done, just find out the exact spot you need to "stop" your peon (on the walk over from 4) in order to see his hall building so he DOESN'T see your peon. Then go up above. Most players will be building a rax and not check until its too late. Otherwise stay at 4.

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-Kith-Kanin-