Ya, I think this thread has been beaten to death with a stick .

Kith already told you guys how it works.
Any cookbook that gets lust fast pretty much sucks. There were a few players on Cases igl who always tried this, and a 2 Hall destroys them so bad it's laughable.

Hehe, on one of my old strategy guides I posted a "Cookbook Killer" strategy that pretty much tore cookbooking a new ass. I'd post it because it was kind of humorous but I have no idea where it is anymore.

God...whoever posted this topic really knows how to stir up a forum.

Weee go thread go. My post owners




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"dot dot dot"

delete harsh's replies they hold no significance =P

Biz, even if I couldnt get a 4 minute lust to work, that doesnt mean it isn't possible. ding, dong, ding, dong. And whether or not its valid as a war2 strat is irrelevant, that's not what biz and I were discussing.

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Mage Guild

well i quit reading at somepoint when sappers were discussed because there were to many replys. but SAPPERS FUCKING OWN. nothing beats playing a free map and 9 saps get done in 3 sec and you send them at one unit and BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM or bne fastest adn dualing and taking otua base in 12.3 seconds SAPPERS OWN YOUR MOMMYS CHILDHOODS PET GOAT

SAPPERS FOR LIFE!!!!

Jesus Christ, As I'm reading these posts, I can't figure out why anyone in here is saying mages are better than lust (implying it, actually). If two equal players played a 1on1, one human one orc, the orc player would win without a doubt. hasted dks are SO much better than mages in my opinion, less mana to haste than to invis. hasted dks can mage bomb better too? =( hasted dks + lust + good player = dead human piece of shit =(

i do agree that orcs usually own human.... but just one little note about hasted dks...

if the human player is smart, he will have pladdies with exor... which means haste wont do so good since the dk will get 'dun'ed

Bleh so now i have to talk about the actual subject??!! O, ok..i think i can handle that.
Getting fast lust means shit like who ever said that up top. I could have foot men that would own those 2 ogres....

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"dot dot dot"

don't listen to genmike he's just another "orc'er" :D

However, harsh you fail to see what biz and I were discussing, like I said. We weren't talking about whether a 4 minute lust would do any damage or not :( Go read the posts before you comment on em.

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Mage Guild

*thwap thwap thwap thwap*

(British accent)
Oh my oh me... is that the sound of a dead horse being beaten?

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Noss

Well, I just started playing war2 again(been playing off and on for the time its been out) but one things for certain, I am no pro =/. I consider myself an intermediate player. If it wasnt for my friend sypher, I wouldnt know half the stuff I know today =P. I have always had a knick to play human, even when I was newb and as ive moved up through the game. I read Kith-Kanin's humie start, and I will be practicing it . I always refuse to play orc, because well... I really dont know hehe. Im just tired of ppl syaing "Human is for newbs" or "mages blow vs Bloodlust". I think its all a matter of micomanagement skills and experiance. If the rumors I heard were right, Tillerman was #1 on some ladder as human, so they are playable. Perhaps Blizzard purposly made the game like this, so really good players could show how good they were by beating a good orc player as human. But then again, who knows =P. All I know is I WILL always be trying to get better with human. I think the mages are the better route than going all demo squads. I prefer a combination of both, but I always get the mages first with blizzard. I hope to see u online sometime Kith-Kanin so you could show me a thing or two about humies in person

I also cannot leave out that I am highly criticized for playing human all the time, especially by sypher =P.

Summoner, the fact is dker's aren't a factor. Haste does dick. I don't even need exorcism to stop haste because if I slow yer dk with 1 of my 5 mages that I'll easily have before you even THINK of dker's then you now have a slowed dker which does nothing but die. As for lust, I've beaten lots of good players without lust (and been orc), I've beaten lots of good players without lust (and been human). Its just a matter of how the game goes. If both players are evened up, then lust and blizzard doesn't even become a factor I find. The availability of expansion mines that are protectable is the big problem, Ffor both orc and human players. You can ask anyone. I remember when DI made an all human clan for NWL (when it had clans), and I was on there for a bit and we were wrecking lots and lots of people. The whole problem is people don't want to play humans because they're harder to win with simply because blizzard is harder to control and use then lusting 9 ogres and hitting patrol. It has nothing to do with balance. The only spell I think that becomes an issue is runes. Its impossible for a human player to stop runes. But since most orc players are too retarded to even think of using runes then it usually doesn't become an issue either. Anyways, you're intitled to your opinions.

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-Kith-Kanin-

you think YOU get criticized for playing humans? I like to go random a lot, and let me tell you. the first thing I hear is "orc up" "soth race" "SOTH" "RACE" to give you an idea of what I go thru each game =/ then when I get jacked my ally blames our loss on my being humans, when really..it has little to do with that. Sometimes orcs might have won the game for me, but usually I'll lose because I let the other guy 2 hall untouched or some shiet. I have to be honest, I prefer orcs against better players, but I go random because it makes the game less dull.

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Mage Guild

No one has yet to realize that by lust, vs a humie player, that your peons have just been raped 2 times over with good ole invis blizz or just blizz. And when those lusties come by your main, the mages at the main town along with those helpful lil amounts of knights own the ogres with the blizz. And if the humie player is good, then he'll stop you from getting expansions with the nice lil flyers. Not saying its any easier for humie players to get the expansions but with the time that the orc player is scrounging up those peons its enough time to get at least 2 other expansions. This is just by fort stage and the rushs were nullified or both players powerd. Lots of things can set the pace of the game which will give one the upper hand. *yawns*

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"dot dot dot"

i dont think anyone relizes yet how to play humans except kith-kanin and axolotl...and not completely, even though they are both excellent players

almost ALL the human players say "well i get lots of knights, blizzard, and sappers"
and i'm thinking WTF!?!?!? YOU CAN DO THAT WITH ORCS!!

u have to have a reason to play humans - orcs have bloodlust, which is why ppl play orcs

humans have: exorcism(*****), blizzard, healing, slow, polymorph, and invisibility

so now let's say you have 12 units each, full mana, and fliars: 9 ogres & 3 dks vs 9 knights and 3 mages

immidiately the knights exorcize the dks - they are out of it...now 9 on 3
the mages slow the bloodlust ogres, and then they scatter them with blizzard. ok now ur knights take them out in little packs and heal each other the whole time.
you will come out with 9 full-strengthed knights, and 3 mages vs 0 ogres, 0 dks

now obviously that was a completely ideal situation, but i've had similar things happen like that to me before


as for Soth, u still don't get it: to have 2 Ogres level 1 with Bloodlust the ABSOLUTE FASTEST(I AM POSITIVE) WITHOUT THE HALL IS 4:28 SECONDS. I SCIENTIFICLY(hehe) TESTED IT AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET IT ANY FASTER

if you say so biz =/ Considering your hardly the best war2 player out there, I guess you are the all knowing war2 god who knows its IMPOSSIBLE to get lust in 4 minutes or under. As far as typos go, its 'scientifically', not however you spelled it.

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Mage Guild

Soth it doesn't matter if i am the best at war2 or the worst - i know that you cannot possibly get it faster than 4:38 on even faster.....consider everything, try it, whatever you have to do, i highly doubt u'll break 5 minutes....even with 2 ogres. chains' 7 minute lust is ALMOST as fast as you can get if you get defense and ogres..

One thing that everyone so far seems to have neglected is the use of sappers on low res land maps. On low/land sappers can be extremely effective in that they can kill your smith/mound etc enought times that you do not have enough oil to upgrade, or you cannot even make ogres. This relagates one to using grunts and mages (if already upgraded). Lust/mage disparity is difficult to evaluate because the type of attack is so different. On a map like maze, I would easily bet that someone playing humans can rape an orc player or vice versa if they can wall and have good unit control. On a map like gow it is harder, but still possible. The key for humans is to have plenty of flyers and mages. One note, there is nothing you can do to stop and invisible mage. You can lose your peon line every time. Unless you have a million towers, in which case the mage just kills the towers and works its way in. There are a variety of positive and negative aspects of every strat. Plus you can throw it all out the window once the game starts, rarely does any game let you time exactly when to upgrade or expand, etc. Play it by ear, and adapt to what is going on, and most likely you will win. If you get stuck doing cookbook strats and timing your lust, when someone messes up your routine you will probably lose anyway.

Hehe Terror. Your so right.

Sappers/demo instead of lust/mages. Holy are you sure about that? The speed in my opion gives mages a lil bit more of an edge. It takes longer for a group of lusted ogres to break in. If you have fire wall you can take out a good # of them i have been figureing out. When attacking lust with mage i enjoy slowing and useing hit and run tactics. Maybe strange but i like my mages in great #'s. If iam getting beat down by lust a demo aint going to help much. 1 mage with slow can take a lusted ogre:-x But the downfall if blizzard kinda lingers a bit longer it seems. and it does take longer to cast which maybe annoying if your trying a sneak mage boamb and your mage hasnt casted upto power just yet.

Normally in any mage, expecially maze, i love to get mages and deck them out with every thing. In maze you can toy with your oppent severly. Slowing a group of lusted ogres and then casting fire wall in the ogre in the middle breaks down there lust time and health. May sound dumb but it does work for me. Any wayz.....=]

Sypher...I am afraid that is 100% not true. You may have had a mage come univis in the middle of patrolling ogres, but it is certainly not cause and effect. I have both used and been abused by invis mages when I have patrolled.

Terror, one thing, ive noticed that patrolling ogres will make the mages visible again... i dont know if its a bug or what, but its true!

paladin, when terror was referring to demos/saps he was pointing out that on low res you have a limited supply of oil, and on land maps if you lose your fort/smith once too many times you cant rebuild it. And that can screw you over big time.

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Mage Guild

54 and can we hit 55??

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"dot dot dot"

Summoner, but there is one problem, chains is pretty good compared to az... and well, i think kith is 5x better than chains and az, so.... yeah...

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Sypher
ICQ: 15393260

This is a big thread

I dont have a lot of experiance playing good people with humans, but obviously you can make hella lot of mages before lusty, and kick the crap out of the ogremages with blizzard, and slow, on defense, that is of course if you know how to use spells.