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SoCxYamon
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 925
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war2.ru
The server is facing the same problems it has been facing since it's inception in 2006. The community is full of players who refuse to embrace new blood. This server was created to increase the number of players. But most of the players feel that the server was made to get rid of new players so they can play privately. And play privately is exactly what they do. Not that it's a problem execpt, that's all they do. The majority of the community wants people to have one alias so they can ban whoever they do not like, or don't think has enough skill to compete. Instead of trying to bring new life to the game they're killing it. I suggest as a former admin and formally one of the most active players of all time, that we start a leave no player behind system in which case if you host a game you are responsible to let everyone play whether the teams are fair or not. and limit private play to an appropriate level when there's no one around. I also disagree with the no inappropriate language/offensive language rule. This server was also made by Americans and free speech should be a part of it. Lets face it, without shit talk or someone trolling it's just not warcraft 2. I was asked to advertise the server by burnt and in turn i would get paid. I did not because of these very problems that can be easily fixed.
_________________
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Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:18 pm |
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woofy
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 463
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mhmm
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Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:09 am |
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~iL
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
Location: Russia, Moscow |
Re: war2.ru
quote:
Originally posted by SoCxYamon
I suggest as a former admin and formally one of the most active players of all time, that we start a leave no player behind system in which case if you host a game you are responsible to let everyone play whether the teams are fair or not. and limit private play to an appropriate level when there's no one around.
What about to make some kind of rating for each game hoster? Thought about to let players report about they got booted/banned from games with no reason, maybe improper team splitting, etc. Then we can take a list with good/bad game hosts.
How do you think?
quote:
Originally posted by SoCxYamon
I also disagree with the no inappropriate language/offensive language rule. This server was also made by Americans and free speech should be a part of it. Lets face it, without shit talk or someone trolling it's just not warcraft 2. I was asked to advertise the server by burnt and in turn i would get paid. I did not because of these very problems that can be easily fixed.
Could be dicsussed, I have no plans against the freedom.
Just to make the limit in offensive language to the people go as far as they wish in their offensive. Do you think everyone can offence you as he wish, and admins, you and everyone should do nothing, just look and enjoy, right?
_________________
War2Combat 3.05: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=264401 (13 Mb)
War2 MapEditor 1.02: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15442 (3,6 Mb)
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Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:19 am |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
quote:
Could be dicsussed,
I have no plans against the freedom.
Just to
make the limit
in offensive language to the people go as far as they wish in their offensive. Do you think everyone can offence you as he wish, and admins, you and everyone should do nothing, just look and enjoy, right?
you contradict yourself.
Just make the "moderated discussion" channel happen already.
- Default channel: war2BNE (topic: be careful, bitch, this channel be moderated. Join "Shittalkerz n trollz" for the moderation-free channel)
-add the "shittalkerz n trawlz" channel to the list (by the side of channel menu)
-add sum moderators-niggers that will guard peace + make an OFFICIAL rulebook with do's and dont's (this is important shit right here, chap, i dont like the vague shit thats happening on .ru right now)
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Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:25 am |
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~iL
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
Location: Russia, Moscow |
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
you contradict yourself.
Well, I read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
quote:
The right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and is commonly subject to limitations based on the speech implications of the harm principle including libel, slander, obscenity and pornography, sedition, hate speech, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements.
I didn't mean absolute freedom, and you?
Then we shouldn't prohibit spam.
And why do we prohibit cheating, hacking, etc? Aren't we fighting against the Freedom?
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
Just make the "moderated discussion" channel happen already.
- Default channel: war2BNE (topic: be careful, bitch, this channel be moderated. Join "Shittalkerz n trollz" for the moderation-free channel)
-add the "shittalkerz n trawlz" channel to the list (by the side of channel menu)
-add sum moderators-niggers that will guard peace + make an OFFICIAL rulebook with do's and dont's (this is important shit right here, chap, i dont like the vague shit thats happening on .ru right now)
Well, do you dislike any limits to freedom of speech absolutely for our server or just how I try to make it?
_________________
War2Combat 3.05: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=264401 (13 Mb)
War2 MapEditor 1.02: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15442 (3,6 Mb)
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Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:24 pm |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
i already told you, im not trying to fight your hitler policy, but to regulate it. A random, vague and obscure 'no obscene language' isnt doing it for me.
quote:
- Default channel: war2BNE (topic: be careful, bitch, this channel be moderated. Join "Shittalkerz n trollz" for the moderation-free channel)
-add the "shittalkerz n trawlz" channel to the list (by the side of channel menu)
-add sum moderators-niggers that will guard peace + make an OFFICIAL rulebook with do's and dont's (this is important shit right here, chap, i dont like the vague shit thats happening on .ru right now)
quote:
- Default channel: war2BNE (topic: be careful, bitch, this channel be moderated. Join "Shittalkerz n trollz" for the moderation-free channel)
-add the "shittalkerz n trawlz" channel to the list (by the side of channel menu)
-add sum moderators-niggers that will guard peace + make an OFFICIAL rulebook with do's and dont's (this is important shit right here, chap, i dont like the vague shit thats happening on .ru right now)
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Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:16 pm |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
Claw the War2 Council is a secret society and as such you should not advertise your alleged membership in your location. Please remove
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:25 pm |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
write some general chat rules you lazy ass lawyer. youve done your cleaning for today filthy whore
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Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:48 pm |
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smurf_king
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 4366
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/squelch
/end thread
_________________
http://phoenixtears.ca/
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Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:37 pm |
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mousEtopher
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 109
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quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
i already told you, im not trying to fight your hitler policy, but to regulate it.
It's not a Hitler policy, iL makes a very good point - free speech is never absolute, even in the all-hailed USA. You may have the "right" to tell a judge or a police officer or the president to go fuck themselves, but that doesn't mean you won't catch shit for it.
That said, I think the moderated main channel idea could be a good one, if it could be enforced in some way. I seriously doubt human moderation will ever happen to any meangingful extent, and the only alternative I can think of is a bot with phrasebanning. If it could be programmed to be a little more discerning than just insta-banning any time it registers a forbidden word, it might be viable.
As far as I can tell iL's law isn't being enforced in any way atm which defeats the purpose of its existence. If the only goal here is to make a general suggestion for people to play nicely then it should be phrased as such, rather than as an ominous threat.
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squeak
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Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:36 pm |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
I don't think moderation of the channel really helps newbies getting shouted down for sucking during games though. In-game is where real rage often happens. Seems hard, to do.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:40 pm |
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test
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 230
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Paperboy and Koorb are usually the biggest culprates in the rage dept lol. SPB seems to be the one that does most of the unjust banning. I have several twitch videos of him just banning people as soon as they enter for no reason at all other than their name looks noob'ish.
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Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:45 pm |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
quote:
You may have the "right" to tell a judge or a police officer or the president
judge? police officer? president?
we are talking about a private, illegal and chill-out zone warcraft 2 server, where everyone plays in their basement and they talk shit after a lost game. yes, an absolute freedom of speech is totally possible here.
Disagree? Sue somebody from war2.ru for the shittalk and see what happens. Nothing? ooooh. Apparently its outside of everyones jurisdiction, so we ALREADY have an absolute freedom as far as the law goes.
You're trying sooo hard to sneakily input that warcraft 2 is an official, public zone, which it is not (and shouldnt be), unless you 'make it' that way. But there SHOULD be consequences for that approach
1) transparent chat rules, i want no nigger to punish me because theyre on their mental period
2) rule enforzers, dead laws are retards domain
3) chill-out zones, could be by moderated channels and special tags added to game (and since everyone likes the hitler server idea, it is default channel for moderated discussion and default game name for moderated in-game discussion). Want to shittalk? add [ST] to your gamename and join an undefault chat channel. Obviously no1 would ever do the latter, cuz people need to rejoin all day n shit.
4) instead of banning the offenders permanently for the chat shittalk, just ban them from using moderated discussion chat channel. i mean wtf lol.
5) If somebody calls me a hacker out of a whim and is unable to prove it and no actions about it will be done, i will no longer respect any of the laws above in game-chats and whispers towards that person.
Why? Sure, make it totally official, but there are consequences to any kind of defamation without proof there.
it sounds like butthurt and could get me banned, but its not my fault iL's views are not coherent. Somebody trolled him and hes trying to make something about it happen, but he doesnt even know or understand what to do.
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Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:42 pm |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
quote:
And why do we prohibit cheating, hacking, etc? Aren't we fighting against the Freedom?
well, we're talking about the chat and in-game behaviour moderation here, dummy.
If youre actually curious, in ideal circumstances i wouldnt need to ban hackers, not at all. But once a hacker joined a game, everyone would get something along these lines: *warning, this person has hacked, type /hacker XXX for details* and it would be up to people whether they want to play with a hacker.
get that, shitwit? the PEOPLE can choose to leave or stay and 'free-market' would regulate whether the hacking person could play any games at all, the PEOPLE-game hosts would regulate whether a person should be banned, the PEOPLE can choose to not join somebodys game because of his bad reputation. Absolute freedom can be reached even in that area with action history for each person
If the ideal cant be reached, i'd choose whatever option is the closest to it. In this case its 'ban the hackers off the server'. it is by no way an absolute freedom philosophy, but its the most optimal solution given our possibilities.... and i would still label users with 'HACKER' icon
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Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:52 pm |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
Dont spam.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:54 pm |
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~iL
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
Location: Russia, Moscow |
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
If youre actually curious, in ideal circumstances i wouldnt need to ban hackers, not at all. But once a hacker joined a game, everyone would get something along these lines: *warning, this person has hacked, type /hacker XXX for details* and it would be up to people whether they want to play with a hacker.
get that, shitwit? the PEOPLE can choose to leave or stay and 'free-market' would regulate whether the hacking person could play any games at all, the PEOPLE-game hosts would regulate whether a person should be banned, the PEOPLE can choose to not join somebodys game because of his bad reputation. Absolute freedom can be reached even in that area with action history for each person
Then, such ideal circumstances will cause the whole community to become cheaters.
Now we have 1 outlaw dellam with tons new accounts and several underground maphackers, having to be masked by sending scout peons, etc.
Once you stop fight against cheating, all these trash leave their caves and won't be care of any warnings.
Most common people won't care about their rating, they just prefer to play with hacker than to wait a game.
Next thought: why can't I hack myself against hacker if others can? He is a hacker, so, i have to hack too, for balance.
Next step: Let that warning appear each time i join a game, others do and they happy, enjoy playing war2, and they have an advantage. Maybe, someone boot them, but w/e?
Then we have half of community including good players begin hacking.
And at last, others have to hack too, to balance their chances in game with the same skill level hacking players.
That is how the free-market will force war2 to be evolved to a game with always-opened map, when you can build mage tower or any building with TH lvl 1 and cast any spells right away.
The only choice you will have is to loose against hackers without hacking, or to hack yourself against hackers.
I don't mean it's bad, i dislike such "freedom", but i have to follow the community wishes. And im sure community dislike such kind of war2 too.
Same situation with the language: now everyone do that because everybody do.
_________________
War2Combat 3.05: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=264401 (13 Mb)
War2 MapEditor 1.02: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15442 (3,6 Mb)
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:05 am |
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~iL
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
Location: Russia, Moscow |
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
we are talking about a private, illegal and chill-out zone warcraft 2 server, where everyone plays in their basement and they talk shit after a lost game. yes, an absolute freedom of speech is totally possible here.
Disagree? Sue somebody from war2.ru for the shittalk and see what happens. Nothing? ooooh. Apparently its outside of everyones jurisdiction, so we ALREADY have an absolute freedom as far as the law goes.
We already have an absolute anarchy, not absolute freedom.
Forum is abandoned, so not any rules working here. I don't like that for the server.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
You're trying sooo hard to sneakily input that warcraft 2 is an official, public zone, which it is not (and shouldnt be), unless you 'make it' that way. But there SHOULD be consequences for that approach
You right, administration have to decide if it's public zone or not. I hope several more players coming, so, i'd prefer to consider it public.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
1) transparent chat rules, i want no nigger to punish me because theyre on their mental period
Agree. Coming soon.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
2) rule enforzers, dead laws are retards domain
Agree. I see an easiest solution like checking words in chat logs for past day, 5 min per day, same as some public forums moderation.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
3) chill-out zones, could be by moderated channels and special tags added to game (and since everyone likes the hitler server idea, it is default channel for moderated discussion and default game name for moderated in-game discussion). Want to shittalk? add [ST] to your gamename and join an undefault chat channel. Obviously no1 would ever do the latter, cuz people need to rejoin all day n shit.
Agree. You always can make your private chamber channel, maybe i'll add any shittalk or flaming public channel if needed.
Anyways, i have no protest against friendly trash talk as it's going on now. Just to push that friendly trash talk to private, no public chat, to keep others far from that. I also have no protest against the language against yourself or your grunts or laggs, or against nobody.
My goal is to protect new and casual players from offending.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
4) instead of banning the offenders permanently for the chat shittalk, just ban them from using moderated discussion chat channel. i mean wtf lol.
I'll think about that. There is no so many people to be banned for coming rules. So, i hope temporary ban would be enough. I have plans to upgrade server to the new vesrion with muting option later.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
5) If somebody calls me a hacker out of a whim and is unable to prove it and no actions about it will be done, i will no longer respect any of the laws above in game-chats and whispers towards that person.
Why? Sure, make it totally official, but there are consequences to any kind of defamation without proof there.
Agree. If somebody calls you a hacker out of a whim, it's kind of intentional defaming or at least offence and should be a reason for sanctions. One can ask you SS or ask how did you find him so fast, but not to call you a hacker.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
it sounds like butthurt and could get me banned, but its not my fault iL's views are not coherent. Somebody trolled him and hes trying to make something about it happen, but he doesnt even know or understand what to do.
Np, you right. Somebody really trolled me, then i began to look and find that he trolls some more people. Then i began to look more and find that there are about 3-5 persons who trolls random players include newbies, and then i thought: "wtf? Why not to ban them for 1-2 weeks to let them be more careful in their language and make this world a little better?"
I really didn't understand what to do. Then i began discussions here. I have been wondered that almost everyone are happy to troll and to be trolled.
But now i'm ready to do what i need.
_________________
War2Combat 3.05: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=264401 (13 Mb)
War2 MapEditor 1.02: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15442 (3,6 Mb)
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:23 am |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
youre wrong about my 'freedom model', but since its only theoretical, theres really no point arguing about it right now.
Anarchy is not equal freedom, because we have to consider the 'freedom' of everyone. When lance can steal any account and ddos anybody, this is indeed anarchy, but nowhere close near freedom. Freedom would be to choose whether you want to have to do anything with lance (for example by having an ability to block him/his posts on your account) instead of permbanning him. globally.
Get that, nig? Let me give you a w2 example:
FREEDOM: as the game host, you can CHOOSE whether you want to keep/ban hackers (that you know are hackers, because account history is transparent). Same applies to shittalkers, niggers, homos, ripestickzorz and autistic newbies.
ANARCHY that ISNT freedom: a wild tupac with his fancy hosthack, who can join any non-passworded game and drop it or kick everybody from it.
You
basically agreed with all the suggestions/points i made
. thats good. if you have any questions about your new server model, feel free to ask.
OT: I may decide to create my own clan, i have your word that you're going to punish imposters of reserved clan tags, remember? 
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:38 am |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
Dont spam.
what do you mean? 2 posts in a row isnt spam. Is posting annoying pictures spam? Not according to your previous posts, mister.
I already told you to talk to me again when you get tired of cleaning annoying unrelated pictures from server.war2.ru section (n let anything happen on general discussion).
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:41 am |
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Scrub
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4009
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Ban the clown 4 life, this kid is a joke n nothing but problems.
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:40 am |
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~iL
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
Location: Russia, Moscow |
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
youre wrong about my 'freedom model', but since its only theoretical, theres really no point arguing about it right now.
Do you agree with my logic that choice between cheating and non-cheating make cheating the whole community?
Sometimes giving a choice to community makes it to turn to one side with no choice for any members.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
Anarchy is not equal freedom, because we have to consider the 'freedom' of everyone. When lance can steal any account and ddos anybody, this is indeed anarchy, but nowhere close near freedom. Freedom would be to choose whether you want to have to do anything with lance (for example by having an ability to block him/his posts on your account) instead of permbanning him. globally.
Get that, nig? Let me give you a w2 example:
FREEDOM: as the game host, you can CHOOSE whether you want to keep/ban hackers (that you know are hackers, because account history is transparent). Same applies to shittalkers, niggers, homos, ripestickzorz and autistic newbies.
ANARCHY that ISNT freedom: a wild tupac with his fancy hosthack, who can join any non-passworded game and drop it or kick everybody from it.
Well, i understood what do you mean as freedom and anarchy.
When i used term "anarchy" I meant community with no administration or government. That kind of community where no one has exclusive permissions, all the members manage their community themselves on parity basis. I don't see such structure of our community, except abandoned server like official bnets, where anyone can tell or hack whenever he wants, with no punishments.
I feel "freedom (of speech)" as an opportunity to discuss anything and express your opinion even if it differs from others.
I know communities with rules like: "administration is always right", then you can be banned if you tell you disagree with them. Or if you try to discuss moderator's solution.
Another example: one russian TV channel has been blocked after they discussed fascism during WW2. There is no freedom of speech about fascism in Russia.
So, freedom of speech as i undestand it, is a right to talk about everything, to be disagree with anybody. But not a right to call anybody names.
I never banned people who disagree with me, i appreciate different opinion.
There's no problem that we have different meaning for the same words: the main goal is to understand each other.
But i don't understand why should we keep offensive language?
If you think someone is not right, tell him you think he is not right.
What reason to call him idiot, nigger, or w/e? Useless for you, alienate him from you. Will not help you to explain your position.
What reason for "freedom to call names"? You always can express your thoughts by other words.
Well, i have to esteem the community traditions, even if i don't understand that. So, let's talk between yourself as you wish, just don't do it against others, who doesn't share your traditions.
BTW, your idea about transparent account history disturbs other's freedom to be anonymous, that i appreciate and have plans to keep, at least for now.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
You
basically agreed with all the suggestions/points i made
. thats good. if you have any questions about your new server model, feel free to ask.
That's great when we are on common ground!
Of course would be insteresting to know about new server model as you see it.
New rules are coming soon.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
OT: I may decide to create my own clan, i have your word that you're going to punish imposters of reserved clan tags, remember?
Sure, i think such rule should be, with the rule about similar accounts.
_________________
War2Combat 3.05: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=264401 (13 Mb)
War2 MapEditor 1.02: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15442 (3,6 Mb)
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:54 am |
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~iL
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
Location: Russia, Moscow |
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
hacker accounts are transparent* 
better? You have it here too! Hackers should lose all kind of priviledges, they'd have no right to request ss, no right to anonymousity, no right to ladder...
Then i agree. I assume there will be no more than 10-20% of hackers, or we have to make separate ladders and other priviledges for hacker part of community.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
I dont. Of course this is not the case. Most of the people are not mental fuck-ups like allstar and actually prefer the fair play and competition. Normal people would just play with other normal people and ban hackers, stoners and oldies like old.man or ch0ppy wouldnt care enough to ban them unless they kept hacking lol
Of course, process will start from existing hackers, then mental fuck-ups come in, then normal people (mostly from newbies) begin to be interested what is that and try. Then they begin to get marked as hackers. Then hacking mark will be required to be splitted between "permanent hackers" and "once tried hackers".
Then community conscious begin to change to hacking side, accepting idea that hacking is not so bad.
When you join the server one time, you will see an opened hacker game and have to eighter wait for hours for good game or play what you see.
Maybe you will be one of last people who turn to hacking, but what will you do if more than 1 half of players are marked as hackers, someone make a big game and 2-3 of 8 players are being marked hackers and host accept that? Will you exit with no chance to play without hacking?
I see the only 2 opportunities:
eighter the whole community will turn into hacking,
or community will be splitted between big part of hackers and small one of non-hackers. And later that small part disappears, because it's easy to become a hacker and not possible to return back.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
if you need an example, i give you myself. I have a few hacks that cannot be detected and i never used them against real players.
Same for me. I never used hacks against real players because i know hacking is evil and i respect other people to do that.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
If you really think the antihack rules are the ONLY thing keeping EVERYONE from hacking, then you consider the human kind mindless animals.
No, i think rules are the ONLY thing keeping several mental fuck-ups from hacking.
But they will pull several more people to dark side. And then more...
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
-you need religion because otherwise people would just murder each other
-you need strict antihack laws with permbans otherwise people would just hack each other
-you need prohibition because otherwise people would OD and the human kind would vanish
-you need to force people into certain diets by regulating their foods because otherwise everyone would become very fat and died of diabetes
etcetc. Boooring and retarded, look it up online!
You disagree? Suggest to cancel all that rules?
_________________
War2Combat 3.05: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=264401 (13 Mb)
War2 MapEditor 1.02: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15442 (3,6 Mb)
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:19 pm |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
so basically youre saying that the only evolutionary stable strategy for my server conception is to become a hacker (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy
)
We can only theorycraft about that. The only empirical evidence we got is battle.net during 2004 until 2008 or whenever the big migration started. So tell me, how come only mental fuck ups hacked on BN during that time? Nobody was ip-banning anybody, people simply enjoyed the fair game. Now add the hack history transparency and multiple punishments for cheating, i dont think the fuck-up percentile is large enough to invade and completely dominate the community.
Maybe you will be one of last people who turn to hacking
you see, not only is your scenario unrealistic (because its the other way around, hackers are 1%), but it also works in 'my' favour.
Lets take a look at below example:
iL: people cannot survive a zombie apocalypse, because imagine youre one of the last people on earth, everyone else is a zombie, nothing is possible and you starve to death, right?
Noo, because its actually the entire world against 200 zombies first and realistically its never going to come to that. Zombies will be killed very soon.
We can apply the same logic to war2. If we're 98%-100% good at detecting hackers and notifying players about them, it will be THEIR problem to stay in the game and/or continue hacking, because they will keep getting banned, excluded from tournaments and generally not being any part of the community. So the problem to 'sticking around despite unfriendly environment' actually backfires at hackers.
Also yes, any host that'd be retarded enough to let hacker(s) ruin his games isnt worth joining to.
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:02 pm |
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~OldEngligh~
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 384
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Articulate Claw is boring .. bring the dumb Polak back pleaaaase...
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:53 pm |
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~iL
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
Location: Russia, Moscow |
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
so basically youre saying that the only evolutionary stable strategy for my server conception is to become a hacker (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy
)
yes, i didn't know that theory name
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
We can only theorycraft about that. The only empirical evidence we got is battle.net during 2004 until 2008 or whenever the big migration started. So tell me, how come only mental fuck ups hacked on BN during that time? Nobody was ip-banning anybody, people simply enjoyed the fair game. Now add the hack history transparency and multiple punishments for cheating, i dont think the fuck-up percentile is large enough to invade and completely dominate the community.
Oh, you mean that? Community members kept fighting against hacking theirselves for these 4 years and didn't turn into hacking?
Yes, then i agree.
All the time cheating meaned outlaw, every caught cheater have been dropped out of the game, so the community kept free to total cheating.
While the community mind looks cheating like evil, nothing happend, i agree that.
I thought about you as admin tells something like "now cheating is legal. Now we make mark for each cheater and people decide if to cheat and play with cheaters or not".
Then community mind begin to change.
If not - then cheaters will try to keep theirselves underground, they will be afraid nobody play with them.
But people will have choice to play with cheaters or not to play.
quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
Lets take a look at below example:
iL: people cannot survive a zombie apocalypse, because imagine youre one of the last people on earth, everyone else is a zombie, nothing is possible and you starve to death, right?
Noo, because its actually the entire world against 200 zombies first and realistically its never going to come to that. Zombies will be killed very soon.
Yes, good example.
Can people survive? Depends on their relations to zombie.
If the whole community dislike for people to become zombie, it stops apocalypse very fast. Even if community let each member to decide to become zombie or not, people will survive while they sure zombie is evil.
And then, your logic about war2: players kept clean from cheating themselves during the non-admin period, free-market didn't help cheaters to be legalized, so cheating prohibit is the choice of community. And language has been accepted by community, so it have to be legal, right?
_________________
War2Combat 3.05: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=264401 (13 Mb)
War2 MapEditor 1.02: http://war2.warcraft.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15442 (3,6 Mb)
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:23 pm |
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cpt^Claw
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 2590
Location: War2 Council |
quote:
And then, your logic about war2: players kept clean from cheating themselves during the non-admin period, free-market didn't help cheaters to be legalized, so cheating prohibit is the choice of community.
yeps. not only that, but hackers name history should be exposed, people should be warned about him when hes joining the game, should be banned from tournaments, banned from ladder etc. So actually even more unfriendly and reclusive environment, But you can already kinda see people didnt behave your distopian way
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:12 pm |
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mousEtopher
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 109
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quote:
Originally posted by cpt^Claw
Sue somebody from war2.ru for the shittalk and see what happens.
lol. :D
Your idea of 'freedom' isn't absolute so much as it's unsupervised. Sure, say whatever you want when you're sitting around in your basement playing games, but at some point there will always be a higher power to answer to. Deliberately antagonize Lb and you're pissing on the police man's shoes, flagrantly disregard the screen shot policy and be held in contempt of the court, etc. War2.ru isn't your basement, it's a privately operated organization with overseers who have more power and authority than you. Actions have repercussions.
In the past month alone I've gotten 3-4 emails from new players with questions about WC, the server, connecting, etc., and there have been similar threads on FB too. This isn't just a pseudo-pedantic hypothetical dialogue between you two, there's real potential here for an influx of new players and it makes sense to take steps to protect them from foul-mouthed cretins.
_________________
squeak
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Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:03 pm |
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