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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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POS was never nearly refined/understood as GOW was on BNE.
What I'm saying is, if the top GOW player's decided to favor friends for a bit, do you really think you would be #1? Of course not. But even if you could somehow still remain number 1, you would never know.
Saying you're #1 on another map is a lot like a boxer saying hes #1 in his small/lesser organization, he may be, but it doesn't matter because if the guys from the main shows came over he would get squashed. Hes only at the top because thats not where the party is at.
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:06 pm |
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~Dakine..HeX
Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4062
Location: salt lake city |
quote:
Originally posted by Swift
POS was never nearly refined/understood as GOW was on BNE.
What I'm saying is, if the top GOW player's decided to favor friends for a bit, do you really think you would be #1? Of course not. But even if you could somehow still remain number 1, you would never know.
Saying you're #1 on another map is a lot like a boxer saying hes #1 in his small/lesser organization, he may be, but it doesn't matter because if the guys from the main shows came over he would get squashed. Hes only at the top because thats not where the party is at.
very similar to being the #1 (or #3 thanks to viruz and sg) in the year 2012
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:29 pm |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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quote:
Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
quote:
Originally posted by Swift
POS was never nearly refined/understood as GOW was on BNE.
What I'm saying is, if the top GOW player's decided to favor friends for a bit, do you really think you would be #1? Of course not. But even if you could somehow still remain number 1, you would never know.
Saying you're #1 on another map is a lot like a boxer saying hes #1 in his small/lesser organization, he may be, but it doesn't matter because if the guys from the main shows came over he would get squashed. Hes only at the top because thats not where the party is at.
very similar to being the #1 (or #3 thanks to viruz and sg) in the year 2012
I haven't been going around saying/acting like I'm #1 in years, so you fail. And I haven't produced more excitement than a yawn out of anyone in over 3 years.
p.s viruz owns
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:24 am |
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Ywfn
Joined: 30 May 2001
Posts: 3833
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quote:
Originally posted by Swift
POS was never nearly refined/understood as GOW was on BNE.
What I'm saying is, if the top GOW player's decided to favor friends for a bit, do you really think you would be #1? Of course not. But even if you could somehow still remain number 1, you would never know.
Saying you're #1 on another map is a lot like a boxer saying hes #1 in his small/lesser organization, he may be, but it doesn't matter because if the guys from the main shows came over he would get squashed. Hes only at the top because thats not where the party is at.
There were thousands of players pre bnet and POS/low was initially the map of choice for a long, long time when the player base was much, much larger. I think your analogy actually works in reverse. Being the GOW champion today is like being the #1 boxer in a smaller/lesser organization (actually it's more like being the champion after no one but a few people care about boxing any longer).
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:33 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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swift you've admitted you dont know anything about war2 pre-BNE so why are you arguing with all these people who played war2 for years before BNE came out when they tell you you're wrong? jesus dude, its ok to be wrong sometimes
he is right about friends.pud though, thats a lame gimmick map and i say that as someone who was pretty good on it 1v1
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:51 am |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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quote:
Originally posted by Ywfn
quote:
Originally posted by Swift
POS was never nearly refined/understood as GOW was on BNE.
What I'm saying is, if the top GOW player's decided to favor friends for a bit, do you really think you would be #1? Of course not. But even if you could somehow still remain number 1, you would never know.
Saying you're #1 on another map is a lot like a boxer saying hes #1 in his small/lesser organization, he may be, but it doesn't matter because if the guys from the main shows came over he would get squashed. Hes only at the top because thats not where the party is at.
There were thousands of players pre bnet and POS/low was initially the map of choice for a long, long time when the player base was much, much larger. I think your analogy actually works in reverse. Being the GOW champion today is like being the #1 boxer in a smaller/lesser organization (actually it's more like being the champion after no one but a few people care about boxing any longer).
Yeah, well from what I observed on bnet there wasn't a lot of people playing POS on compared to how many played GOW. If I am wrong about that then you can let me know. I am not speaking about pre bne days as I said. If POS/low really was the premiere map pre bnet then people claiming they're #1 on it is fine.
As for my analogy. How does it work in reverse? Consider that I am not talking about the modern GOW champion today, so I don't know why thats brought up.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:52 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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his point is war2 was already on life support at best by the time BNE came out, in fact that's the whole reason blizzard repackaged the game for b.net
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:54 pm |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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I see, I never knew it was like that. How many more players were there back then compared to on battle.net?
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:00 pm |
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Kith-Kanin
Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449
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quote:
Originally posted by Swift
I see, I never knew it was like that. How many more players were there back then compared to on battle.net?
1997-1999 I'd say you had easily 10-15000 players. For me the game was most fun 1996-1997 playing with Shlonglor, In clan, SC clan, Platypus, etc. It wasn't as stupid as the game got 5 years later. We played every map, every setting, and enjoyed it just for the fun of it. People played humans and orc and it was just much more fun than it was later years on.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:32 pm |
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SoCxEcLiPzE
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 1376
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Like i said... i said the friends thing as a joke... although IMHO its no less legit than GoW. And what you say about "gow" players would eventually overcome any other play on their settings is highly illogical. It is not about being a "gow" player that makes you good... it is understanding the game as a whole and being able to adapt it/learn a map until your good at it. Like i said there was a time when POS was way more popular than gow... and to this day I still think it offers more than GoW ever did.
Anyway... yes... if the top gow players decided to play friends for a bit... I would still probably waste them... as this happened more than you think it did. I don't even really think I was #1... Sanrio... the dude who taught me it... was better than me 
_________________
I 40-0'd your mother.
Last edited by SoCxEcLiPzE on Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:54 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
Like i said... i said the friends thing as a joke... although IMHO its no less legit than GoW. And what you say about "gow" players would eventually overcome any other play on their settings is highly illogical. It is not about being a "gow" player that makes you good... it is understanding the game as a whole and being able to adapt it/learn a map until your good at it. Like i said there was a time when POS was way more popular than gow... and to this day I still think it offers more than GoW ever did.
friends is way less legit than gow...
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:58 pm |
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SoCxEcLiPzE
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 1376
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quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
Like i said... i said the friends thing as a joke... although IMHO its no less legit than GoW. And what you say about "gow" players would eventually overcome any other play on their settings is highly illogical. It is not about being a "gow" player that makes you good... it is understanding the game as a whole and being able to adapt it/learn a map until your good at it. Like i said there was a time when POS was way more popular than gow... and to this day I still think it offers more than GoW ever did.
friends is way less legit than gow...
I don't see how? It's just another map with a different play style... I just have a soft spot for it
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I 40-0'd your mother.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:59 pm |
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DrunkeN
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 616
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Ahhh the pre-bnet days. Unfortunatly I was a Mac gamer and could only play through Gameranger or MAG. Back with direct connect and people would post their ip to play. POS was a very popular map as was b2b. We played on the faster setting too and had to use the lumber bug. Good times.
Pretty much once SC1 then BW came out most of the wc2 community went away.
Not sure if this adds to the convo but felt sharing.
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Anti-Jabroni
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:03 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
Like i said... i said the friends thing as a joke... although IMHO its no less legit than GoW. And what you say about "gow" players would eventually overcome any other play on their settings is highly illogical. It is not about being a "gow" player that makes you good... it is understanding the game as a whole and being able to adapt it/learn a map until your good at it. Like i said there was a time when POS was way more popular than gow... and to this day I still think it offers more than GoW ever did.
friends is way less legit than gow...
I don't see how? It's just another map with a different play style... I just have a soft spot for it
not all maps and play styles are equal. its like saying checkers is just as legit as chess, it just has a "different play style"
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:08 pm |
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Allstar
Joined: 23 Sep 2000
Posts: 2509
Location: Texas |
i can't believe i'm actually typing this but i agree with swift on the pos vs gow thing. As someone who played POS extensively on case's etc pre bne... it degenerated into 3fb/4fb hard rushes literally every game (this is low of course.) while it's fun in a way to see who can execute the low res build order better, its alot less involved and easier to master than gow ever is.
The reason GOW owns is because its got it all, hard to defend small mines, middle, and each spot is so wildly different from the next you are forced to switch your game up constantly. Its not like BNE/F where you can literally do the same strat over and over and over ad nauseum
And the reason its still mainly played today is because the community's so small nobody wants to risk losing face learning a new map. Its not worth it also because you will never get a string of consecutive games going on random maps to even get good at them in the first place. Usually you can get one or two then people start yelling for gow so the metagame will always end up on gow.
Part of the problem also is 75% of the community being unable to host. This really needs to be a top priority to fix. I've done everything as far as opening ports etc and its helped me not at all. blid and $pace need to kiss and make up and put their collective resources together and fix ru so that everyone can host all the time.
This is truly what kills the game more than anything else.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:19 pm |
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~Dakine..HeX
Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4062
Location: salt lake city |
friends actually had some serious complexity in 2v2 games, or 2v2(v2v2) or 4v4
as a 1v1 map, it was fairly dull. and not really on gow's level in either case.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:31 pm |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
did you ever play a friends 2v2 vs guys who would fill the entire left and right side with towers
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:33 pm |
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Seuss
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 45
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lets play some kpuds
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:39 pm |
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SoCxEcLiPzE
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 1376
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yes friends as a 2v2 map is serious business... it had just as much complexity as gow IMO..... There are MANY strats....i'll name a few
1. Double rush (just like gow...lots of choices in how to do this...1rax / 2 rax... and timing your hits in a friends game is a HUGE importance that can either fuck your rush up, or make it.)
2. Single rush for one player while other player builds towers for defense and once again...many choices here.... do a quick ogre wave and end it early or power to lust?
3. One player runs defensive towrring, other 1rax rushes, the player who towered DK rushes the opposing goldmine and the game shortly ends.
4. Leaning wall defense (farming the front entrace, and ofc back) and playing complete defense with a choke and a cat while powering.
5. Fuck I've seen people pull off dragon rushing on friends.
The point is.... you reducing friends to "checkers" is a product of your limitations/experience on the map. If you hung out in Orc Strategy in the early days or were on kali... you know what i'm talking about.
I would say that you all feel this way about gow as a result of it ending up as literally the only pud played.... but other maps had just as much competition and innovation back in the day. Fuck... even taiga and Schwartz were viable!
Also....YES to kpuds
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I 40-0'd your mother.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:07 pm |
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BonerChamp69
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 107
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quote:
Originally posted by Lightbringer-
Let me put it it in simple terms:
I play 20-25 'training matches' vs a customs player (NOT ONLY AT THE ONE SHITTY PUD HE PLAYS BUT A VARIETY OF CUSTOMS) and I am sure, I will be able to win some/many games.
The customs player comes over to F or EF speed on classic/bne maps and trains for 100 games, I am sure he will not win a single one of them.
Thats how bad and far apart the real RTS gamers will tear the customs players who I will again state it "maps made by the newbies for the newbies"
Heck, think about it:
A newbie getting raped on pos/gow thinks of something where he will live longer than 2 minutes and not die against grunts - CHOP CHOP IS BORN!!
Another fucktard who gets resources raped like 10-50x more mining by his opponent creates a FREE MAP!! where he has all the res he needs!!BGH?? Free Castles ?? is born!!!
A moron cant compete with dks/lust in free, DAMN FREE CASTLES NO AIR NO MAGIC IS BORN!! YAY
haha. It goes on and on.
Not true, in my first month of 1v1's of ever playing gow ef, i beat you in a 1v1. Yes, it was probably a fluke but it disproves the whole 100 game analogy hehe.
Once again, I know classic gow is much more skillful than customs, but no need to exaggerate how difficult the transition is.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:16 pm |
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SoCxEcLiPzE
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 1376
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quote:
Originally posted by BonerChamp69
quote:
Originally posted by Lightbringer-
Let me put it it in simple terms:
I play 20-25 'training matches' vs a customs player (NOT ONLY AT THE ONE SHITTY PUD HE PLAYS BUT A VARIETY OF CUSTOMS) and I am sure, I will be able to win some/many games.
The customs player comes over to F or EF speed on classic/bne maps and trains for 100 games, I am sure he will not win a single one of them.
Thats how bad and far apart the real RTS gamers will tear the customs players who I will again state it "maps made by the newbies for the newbies"
Heck, think about it:
A newbie getting raped on pos/gow thinks of something where he will live longer than 2 minutes and not die against grunts - CHOP CHOP IS BORN!!
Another fucktard who gets resources raped like 10-50x more mining by his opponent creates a FREE MAP!! where he has all the res he needs!!BGH?? Free Castles ?? is born!!!
A moron cant compete with dks/lust in free, DAMN FREE CASTLES NO AIR NO MAGIC IS BORN!! YAY
haha. It goes on and on.
Not true, in my first month of 1v1's of ever playing gow ef, i beat you in a 1v1. Yes, it was probably a fluke but it disproves the whole 100 game analogy hehe.
Once again, I know classic gow is much more skillful than customs, but no need to exaggerate how difficult the transition is.
lightbringer there is a huge difference in some of the older customs that were played in the community we're referring to and the newbier free versions that came later.
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I 40-0'd your mother.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:25 pm |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
yes friends as a 2v2 map is serious business... it had just as much complexity as gow IMO..... There are MANY strats....i'll name a few
1. Double rush (just like gow...lots of choices in how to do this...1rax / 2 rax... and timing your hits in a friends game is a HUGE importance that can either fuck your rush up, or make it.)
2. Single rush for one player while other player builds towers for defense and once again...many choices here.... do a quick ogre wave and end it early or power to lust?
3. One player runs defensive towrring, other 1rax rushes, the player who towered DK rushes the opposing goldmine and the game shortly ends.
4. Leaning wall defense (farming the front entrace, and ofc back) and playing complete defense with a choke and a cat while powering.
5. Fuck I've seen people pull off dragon rushing on friends.
The point is.... you reducing friends to "checkers" is a product of your limitations/experience on the map. If you hung out in Orc Strategy in the early days or were on kali... you know what i'm talking about.
I would say that you all feel this way about gow as a result of it ending up as literally the only pud played.... but other maps had just as much competition and innovation back in the day. Fuck... even taiga and Schwartz were viable!
Also....YES to kpuds
nice speech. you don't know what you're talking about and you're so far off that its apparent that it would be a waste of time to even trying to educate you on how much more depth gow has than a gimmick pud like friends.
if there were something you could argue in war2 terms that would be equivalent to tman's recent rants which convinced the census that hes delusional and borderline retarded, then this would be it.
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:51 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
Sorry but you can't escape the fact that you're a map hacker or that you don't and will never know shit about war2 other than how to maphack on gow/high against the shadow of what used to be an online community 
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Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:23 am |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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thats right, i dont know shit about war2 and my hacks just carry my fat ass
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Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:14 am |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
Don't try to play it off with sarcasm. You're a maphacker that started playing war2 when everyone else quit. Deal with it
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Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:37 am |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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I am trying to and it's eating me up. I especially wish I had the skill to put aside this facade that my hacks have given me
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Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:52 am |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
is there a term where you feign sarcasm while actually speaking the truth? because that's what swift is doing right now.
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Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:56 am |
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This isn't something I would have expected you to say
