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Originally posted by foonat
tyrushedtoohardandgotrapedforttohall

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Originally posted by Fast Luck
Valkrie hacked, and swiftone is better than all of the above

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Their 1v1 record says otterwise

swift was a good 1on1 cookbook player but he was pretty retarded when it came to team games

He was good at teams if he allied Prophecy and had him telling him what to do, but yeah, I'm talking mostly as a 1v1 player.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

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Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

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Swift hacked so he wasnt a good 1on1 player he was a cheater.

He could rape everyone without hacks

Nope he was only that good because he could see the mini map - without it even spbwar would of tooled him

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Originally posted by Fast Luck
Valkrie hacked, and swiftone is better than all of the above

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Originally posted by Ywfn
You can't compare people from era to era using a direct comparison, because the later players get to benefit from previous players' experience.

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I remember losing to some dude that got super fast lust, then excitedly developing my own 13 peon lust strat and unleashing it on people and destroying them. And that's a pretty shitty strat!

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Originally posted by Ywfn
Very odd. I don't see how people can't see what a big deal he was. Ash would beat all the top players consistently, regardless of singles, teams, map, or resources. And he did it when there were still thousands of people that played the game. The only players to even come close to that level of consistency were Scrubbo, Nerzyman, and Valk IMO.

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quote:

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Originally posted by kublikhan

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Originally posted by Ywfn
You can't compare people from era to era using a direct comparison, because the later players get to benefit from previous players' experience.

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+1

There is also something to be said for playing the game back then when strategies were constantly evolving. When gaying was so unorthodoxed experienced players would rather leave the game after getting gayed rather than fight it off. When someone's hot new strat would dominate for some time, only to be ripped apart by a new strat. Back then it was adapt or die. Too much cookbooking nowadays.

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Originally posted by Allstar
when i was real active on kali there was very few people who could beat azteca consistantly

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azteca was pretty dominant on low resources as well - though he probably had alot more competition there..


ladder back then was alot of people playing specific pet maps/resources and azteca was no different although he'd play pretty much whatever on high res if i can remember correctly, its hard to even remember its been so long ago, the only players who really stick out to me.. i remember azteca and tarquinn being a really feared duo

also Jitter even being on that list is hilarious, i never had problems shutting him down when i was active he was not fearsome at all like some of the people on that list

ash maybe i did not see but his legend amongst the geeks is large but kanuks had a good spree too and for years he was so good and at both speeds maybe he is not to be on this tier thing though i cant compare but maybe shotgun can be tier 3 if people would pretend he is not hacker for a day oh and swiftone has most impressive war2 career if not for his always hacking so he should not count too he just got caught. its why he would beat all the top players at least 70% if not 90% of times except for viruz and valkrie on ef but i dont know how last 4 years have been like. but yeah swift viruz valkrie and shotgun all hacked from what i hear


oh and valkrie was so good years back all the geek like allstar wanted to be him and even lie now to act like they good, but when valkrie got caught they were shattered i wondered if someone like ash could beat valkrie back in day while valkrie uses his hacks

Fact is there have been too many dominant players at various times and at various places to count. You don't even see Incinerate mentioned anymore but he was, during his time, very dominant - along with dozens of other players very near that top skill level within months of each other. They mostly just moved on and/or didn't care enough to continue playing as much as those of us obsessed people. I remember when yah'mon had like 10,000 or 20,000 bnet games guy played 24/7 and got to be incredibly good, but he never talked shit so was soon forgotten when he quit.

The people you hear of as "the best" nowadays are just the ones who talked the most trash, and tried the hardest to 'appear' to be the best (dethwlkr excluded, myself included). Azteca was the master at this, and he (along with Archangel) would play all kinds of dirty tricks to appear to be better or to lean a game/series in there direction, and to make the biggest asses of themselves in chat after winning - not to say they weren't great players. But there are countless people at similar skill levels who just didn't care to be "heard".

I was probably a jack of all trades in terms of decent skill, consistency, talking shit to be heard, and putting assloads of time into the game. I stayed back a year of high school being obsessed with war2 - luckily, I still graduated and everything worked out for me I've certainly seen peaks of war2 skill higher than my own - for me personally I basically quit playing war2 seriously when I hit my peak, because it became boring. It's all about the thrill of good competition.

And 1v1 skill is, in my opinion, pretty lame to compare. When I was top at 1v1 it was all about cook booking the best strats - sure there is room for improvisation in 1v1 but nothing like in teams. In 1v1 I usually didnt feel like I lost, but like my predetermined choices lost (i.e. build order and initial strategy). BW is a far superior 1v1 game, and with a far superior talent pool.

Even though alot of people are pathetic for hacking, we all just want to be recognized as pretty good at some point and get some respect, so we might as well give it Everyone here has raped some face at one point. I still play just for that minimal recognition, to win a few games and have some people say "Damn nice job dude u owned". Hearing that once in awhile is just about as good as being "the best".
_________________
Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.

The thing you forget is Swiftone was always there, he just sucked using nicks like godlikeskillz playing on the west server and such.

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Originally posted by BanMe
The people you hear of as "the best" nowadays are just the ones who talked the most trash, and tried the hardest to 'appear' to be the best (dethwlkr excluded, myself included).

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Originally posted by Scrub
The thing you forget is Swiftone was always there, he just sucked using nicks like godlikeskillz playing on the west server and such.

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Originally posted by Allstar
also Jitter even being on that list is hilarious, i never had problems shutting him down when i was active he was not fearsome at all like some of the people on that list

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he was decent but does not deserve a spot on a list of top war2 players ever.

well i dunno i never played many 1v1s only teams and jitter was never the kinda player that would get me nervous and make me try harder - other people like ash khb nex arch yah`mon azteca tarquinn darkangel definately would wake you up when they joined your game or lined up a 2v2 vs you, it was time to play the best you could or you were getting rocked and you knew it.

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Originally posted by BanMe


.

And 1v1 skill is, in my opinion, pretty lame to compare. When I was top at 1v1 it was all about cook booking the best strats - sure there is room for improvisation in 1v1 but nothing like in teams. In 1v1 I usually didnt feel like I lost, but like my predetermined choices lost (i.e. build order and initial strategy). BW is a far superior 1v1 game, and with a far superior talent pool.

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i ran across this post - had to comment


Ash, - yep
Scrubbo, - never played with
KinghillBilly, yep
Tillerman, yep
Stalin - nope, not when i was playing at least
Dethwlkr@DT-best 2on2 player of all time(not bias of course)
Valkrie, never played
Azteca,-yep
mcaDDer,-never played
Swift,-never played
Viruz-never played
INCinerate - needs b here nasty 1on1 or 2on2
TanthlaS- most gracias rank 1 on cases ladder, would play any map/anyres


TIER 2: VERY VERY GOOD PLAYERS. Just lacking 1 or 2 qualities to make TIER 1.

INcinerate, tier 1
Ywfn, yep
Axolotl-solid player maybe got better when i stopped dunno
, Hornet - never played
, Darkangel, yep
Boozecans, - countless battles with booze n UT maybe tier 3
PaTTon- former clan mate of mine and singles ladder legend cant leave him off
KingMage,-never played
Kanuks, -never played
Its_hot_in_herr, -never played
Yahmon,-never played


TIER 3: VERY GOOD PLAYERS. They might they feel belong in TIER 2.

Kith-Kanin-solid player but not deserving when i was playing
, Buzzbomb,-solid player but not deserving when i was playing
ut,-yep booze and ut go to together like white on rice
Archangel-move archy to tier two
, Stalker@DT-yep
Agent911-yep
Tarquinn-played a lot with tarq and against. move to tier 2
Lynchmob - played tons with lynch teams and 1on1 great player
Metal - Azteca got all the accolades but Metal was there all the time in the epic DT vs DI team ladder battles
INHell- 2nd best IN Clan member- real tuff 1on1
DethWish@DT- yea i said it 3x single's ladder champ, countless team titles

Honorable Mention guys
-NauticaX-1on1 or 2on2 excellent player
-yomatha@DT -joined heat ladder as a gag 14-0 rank 1 teams 1 week
-SandStorm-
-Steroids-
-DethMongal@DT-legendary team ladder player
-iLL-1on1 or 2on2 excellent all around player
-DiLLs

ok flame on

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Originally posted by Ywfn

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Originally posted by Fast Luck
Valkrie hacked, and swiftone is better than all of the above

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I don't consider players like swift, viruz, shotgun, etc, even in the running because they all peaked long after war2 was highly competitive with a big playing field.

I agree that if swift traveled back in time to those days, he probably could beat all the players, but that's theorycraft. You can't compare people from era to era using a direct comparison, because the later players get to benefit from previous players' experience.

Based on their dominance with a much larger playingfield, I think it's logical to assume if they were playing with the same intensity today as they did back then, they would be just as dominate.

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I'm easily better then everyone mentioned in this thread so far.
_________________

players missing ~KaNuKs~, Tabac[Man], Rat, Gambler_(DEA) and BHC-HAWK

overrated players: Ywfn and Sandstorm- (No idea who sandstorm is but he sounds overrated)

I agree with Kith on his point bout the game changin so much. For that reason its very hard to compare players of old/new . But with that being said the game is basically dead now and back then there were thousands on cases ladder so that era holds more prestige. I recently dled war2 again and started playin after 10 years of not and the game is a lot diff.

1st major diff
no one plays ne thing but gow/high

2nd major diff
Gaying is all over the place. Back in the day there was towerin and raxin but the gaying now is all time levels. It is common strat in 2on2 for one person to jus gay/tower while other rushes. This has been the hardest thing to adjust to so far

Also I agree that Wlkr/stalker > Az + Metal but its close. i've played countless games with all 4 involved and Az still deserves Tier 1 because he was a great player altho me n him always hated a mutual hate/respect for each other

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Originally posted by DethWish@DT

no one plays ne thing but gow/high

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the only reason thats the case is because gow has been played so much that strategies involving every corner of the map have developed 100x over. There is no reason to believe every other classic map doesn't have the same potential. There are some that don't of course but There are others that also have quirky aspects and could be fun if played with the same intensity, Classic Maze, Classic B2B, Classic HSC, Foc, etc.