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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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its really funny some people are so insecure about eating meat they have to make up these convoluted things about how plants are just as intelligent or whatever
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:32 am |
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foonat
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 7716
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I've found rocks in all kinds of weird places. They must have some sort of intelligence to get there.
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by smurf_king
i rather be a pedophile than a homo
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:33 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Lightbringer-
quote:
Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
Jon is in the right here.
+1
Vegetarians who choose so just because of animals having feelings and being alive are pretty much retards (ignorant).
Now if you chose to be a vegetarian because of religion, that would be something else!
so it makes sense to not eat animals because some two thousand year old book tells you not to, but not because you would rather animals not be tortured/killed to feed you? i see
you do know every slab of meat didn't necessarily come from a tortured animal? as well why care if a animal was killed but no feelings toward a plant when it's killed? no reason other then how we relate to a plant vs an animal.
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:34 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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who are we to even say what intelligence is, that we are more intelligent than things like lumps of cardboard or socks, simply because we have sentience. heh, you think those are thoughts your thinking?
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:34 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
um it's making the exact point i assume.
quote:
ie not a single unit, but rather a collection of interacting organs working in an economy.
how does that contradict anything i said?
how does that differ from animals in the wild such as lion prides?
is that really the exact point you assumed? you linked us to the article to show us how there's not really such thing as "a plant" and not because you wanted to prove how "intelligent" plants are? obviosuly not, that has nothing to do with anything being discussed here.
wat
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:35 am |
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foonat
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 7716
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Lightbringer-
quote:
Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
Jon is in the right here.
+1
Vegetarians who choose so just because of animals having feelings and being alive are pretty much retards (ignorant).
Now if you chose to be a vegetarian because of religion, that would be something else!
so it makes sense to not eat animals because some two thousand year old book tells you not to, but not because you would rather animals not be tortured/killed to feed you? i see
you do know every slab of meat didn't necessarily come from a tortured animal? as well why care if a animal was killed but no feelings toward a plant when it's killed? no reason other then how we relate to a plant vs an animal.
buying non-tortured meat usually costs 2-3x what tortured meat costs, putting it out of reach for most people
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by smurf_king
i rather be a pedophile than a homo
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:35 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
you do know every slab of meat didn't necessarily come from a tortured animal?
lol jon is trying to act like he shops at organic cruelty free farmers markets and doesnt just shovel whatever slop his mom leaves at the top of the basement stairs down his throat
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
Last edited by hassan-i-sabbah on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:35 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
um it's making the exact point i assume.
quote:
ie not a single unit, but rather a collection of interacting organs working in an economy.
how does that contradict anything i said?
how does that differ from animals in the wild such as lion prides?
is that really the exact point you assumed? you linked us to the article to show us how there's not really such thing as "a plant" and not because you wanted to prove how "intelligent" plants are? obviosuly not, that has nothing to do with anything being discussed here.
wat
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:35 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
actually, plants are
so
smart that they
want
to be eaten. it's true, at least besides the "want" part because plants can't actively want things. but fruits gets eaten so that seeds will get spread by the animals who eat them and new plants can grow in other places. that's why berries are bright colors, to attract animals. nuts, corn, etc. operate in this way. dung from cows refertilizes the pastures they graze. how did all this happen? simple evolutionary mechanisms. plants that are able to spread their seeds and reproduce survive. plants that can detect sunlight and grow in that direction survive. but conflating these in-built evolutionary survival mechanisms with the type of feelings, pain, etc experienced by animals is absurd and laughable on its face. choosing between the two, eating plants is
clearly
less cruel than eating animals. the only equivalence you can make is with something like oysters.
disagree. but it's easy to see how a human would think like this, it's too hard for us to grasp plant feelings.
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:36 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
disagree. but it's easy to see how a human would think like this, it's too hard for us to grasp plant feelings.
im a wiccan now
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:36 am |
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foonat
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 7716
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
actually, plants are
so
smart that they
want
to be eaten. it's true, at least besides the "want" part because plants can't actively want things. but fruits gets eaten so that seeds will get spread by the animals who eat them and new plants can grow in other places. that's why berries are bright colors, to attract animals. nuts, corn, etc. operate in this way. dung from cows refertilizes the pastures they graze. how did all this happen? simple evolutionary mechanisms. plants that are able to spread their seeds and reproduce survive. plants that can detect sunlight and grow in that direction survive. but conflating these in-built evolutionary survival mechanisms with the type of feelings, pain, etc experienced by animals is absurd and laughable on its face. choosing between the two, eating plants is
clearly
less cruel than eating animals. the only equivalence you can make is with something like oysters.
disagree. but it's easy to see how a human would think like this, it's too hard for us to grasp plant feelings.
are u serious
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by smurf_king
i rather be a pedophile than a homo
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:36 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
Think of all the poor apple trees dying every time you eat an apple. It's heartbreaking.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:37 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Lightbringer-
quote:
Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
Jon is in the right here.
+1
Vegetarians who choose so just because of animals having feelings and being alive are pretty much retards (ignorant).
Now if you chose to be a vegetarian because of religion, that would be something else!
so it makes sense to not eat animals because some two thousand year old book tells you not to, but not because you would rather animals not be tortured/killed to feed you? i see
you do know every slab of meat didn't necessarily come from a tortured animal? as well why care if a animal was killed but no feelings toward a plant when it's killed? no reason other then how we relate to a plant vs an animal.
buying non-tortured meat usually costs 2-3x what tortured meat costs, putting it out of reach for most people
how do you know what animal was tortured and wasn't tortured?
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:37 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
actually, plants are
so
smart that they
want
to be eaten. it's true, at least besides the "want" part because plants can't actively want things. but fruits gets eaten so that seeds will get spread by the animals who eat them and new plants can grow in other places. that's why berries are bright colors, to attract animals. nuts, corn, etc. operate in this way. dung from cows refertilizes the pastures they graze. how did all this happen? simple evolutionary mechanisms. plants that are able to spread their seeds and reproduce survive. plants that can detect sunlight and grow in that direction survive. but conflating these in-built evolutionary survival mechanisms with the type of feelings, pain, etc experienced by animals is absurd and laughable on its face. choosing between the two, eating plants is
clearly
less cruel than eating animals. the only equivalence you can make is with something like oysters.
disagree. but it's easy to see how a human would think like this, it's too hard for us to grasp plant feelings.
you think plants are smarter than cows and can't recognize that animals have a higher level of consciousness than plants. you think plants can feel pain to the same degree as animals despite not having central nervous systems. your rationalizations are desperate. i can only assume it's because on some level you DO empathize with animals and that's why you need to come up with all these excuses
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:38 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Lightbringer-
quote:
Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
Jon is in the right here.
+1
Vegetarians who choose so just because of animals having feelings and being alive are pretty much retards (ignorant).
Now if you chose to be a vegetarian because of religion, that would be something else!
so it makes sense to not eat animals because some two thousand year old book tells you not to, but not because you would rather animals not be tortured/killed to feed you? i see
you do know every slab of meat didn't necessarily come from a tortured animal? as well why care if a animal was killed but no feelings toward a plant when it's killed? no reason other then how we relate to a plant vs an animal.
buying non-tortured meat usually costs 2-3x what tortured meat costs, putting it out of reach for most people
how do you know what animal was tortured and wasn't tortured?
what are you even arguing lmao
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:39 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
quote:
Originally posted by foonat
I've found rocks in all kinds of weird places. They must have some sort of intelligence to get there.
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
who are we to even say what intelligence is, that we are more intelligent than things like lumps of cardboard or socks, simply because we have sentience. heh, you think those are thoughts your thinking?
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:39 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
actually, plants are
so
smart that they
want
to be eaten. it's true, at least besides the "want" part because plants can't actively want things. but fruits gets eaten so that seeds will get spread by the animals who eat them and new plants can grow in other places. that's why berries are bright colors, to attract animals. nuts, corn, etc. operate in this way. dung from cows refertilizes the pastures they graze. how did all this happen? simple evolutionary mechanisms. plants that are able to spread their seeds and reproduce survive. plants that can detect sunlight and grow in that direction survive. but conflating these in-built evolutionary survival mechanisms with the type of feelings, pain, etc experienced by animals is absurd and laughable on its face. choosing between the two, eating plants is
clearly
less cruel than eating animals. the only equivalence you can make is with something like oysters.
disagree. but it's easy to see how a human would think like this, it's too hard for us to grasp plant feelings.
are u serious
yea blid basically has the normal human reaction towards a plant... "they can't possibly feel anything, it's clearly less evil to eat a plant than a animal" etc..we barely know enough about plants to even make these statements.. but we relate to animals better than plants so that's how we feel.
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:41 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by foonat
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
actually, plants are
so
smart that they
want
to be eaten. it's true, at least besides the "want" part because plants can't actively want things. but fruits gets eaten so that seeds will get spread by the animals who eat them and new plants can grow in other places. that's why berries are bright colors, to attract animals. nuts, corn, etc. operate in this way. dung from cows refertilizes the pastures they graze. how did all this happen? simple evolutionary mechanisms. plants that are able to spread their seeds and reproduce survive. plants that can detect sunlight and grow in that direction survive. but conflating these in-built evolutionary survival mechanisms with the type of feelings, pain, etc experienced by animals is absurd and laughable on its face. choosing between the two, eating plants is
clearly
less cruel than eating animals. the only equivalence you can make is with something like oysters.
disagree. but it's easy to see how a human would think like this, it's too hard for us to grasp plant feelings.
are u serious
yea blid basically has the normal human reaction towards a plant... "they can't possibly feel anything, it's clearly less evil to eat a plant than a animal" etc..we barely know enough about plants to even make these statements.. but we relate to animals better than plants so that's how we feel.
jon, what happens in the winter if we never harvest, say, a field of wheat? hmm
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:42 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
yea blid basically has the normal human reaction towards a plant... "they can't possibly feel anything, it's clearly less evil to eat a plant than a animal" etc..we barely know enough about plants to even make these statements.. but we relate to animals better than plants so that's how we feel.
*takes huge fucking sick bong rip* *exhales alphabetical smoke clouds that spell out "THE MATRIX BUT WITH PLANTS"*
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:43 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
actually, plants are
so
smart that they
want
to be eaten. it's true, at least besides the "want" part because plants can't actively want things. but fruits gets eaten so that seeds will get spread by the animals who eat them and new plants can grow in other places. that's why berries are bright colors, to attract animals. nuts, corn, etc. operate in this way. dung from cows refertilizes the pastures they graze. how did all this happen? simple evolutionary mechanisms. plants that are able to spread their seeds and reproduce survive. plants that can detect sunlight and grow in that direction survive. but conflating these in-built evolutionary survival mechanisms with the type of feelings, pain, etc experienced by animals is absurd and laughable on its face. choosing between the two, eating plants is
clearly
less cruel than eating animals. the only equivalence you can make is with something like oysters.
disagree. but it's easy to see how a human would think like this, it's too hard for us to grasp plant feelings.
you think plants are smarter than cows and can't recognize that animals have a higher level of consciousness than plants. you think plants can feel pain to the same degree as animals despite not having central nervous systems. your rationalizations are desperate. i can only assume it's because on some level you DO empathize with animals and that's why you need to come up with all these excuses
central nervous system is how
animals
are able feel pain.... doesn't mean it's absolutely necessarily for a plant to have one to feel..
quote:
In theory even an organism with a hormonal system instead of a nervous system could be intelligent in some degree, but it would be an extremely slow brain, to say the least.
And yet, at least higher plants are able to produce electrical signals, even if they do not use them in the same way animals do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormonal_sentience
if plants don't feel anything why are they sending out distress signals when being munched on by a caterpillar for instance..?
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:48 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
to increase their likelihood of survival and reproduction, probably, as they evolved to do
or, separately: if this program i just coded can't feel pain then why does it throw an error when it can't parse a line?
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:49 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
jon, what happens in the winter if we never harvest, say,
a field of wheat? hmm
hmm indeed
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:53 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
if plants don't feel anything why are they sending out distress signals when being munched on by a caterpillar for instance..?
_008.png)
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:53 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
to increase their likelihood of survival and reproduction, probably, as they evolved to do
or, separately: if this program i just coded can't feel pain then why does it throw an error when it can't parse a line?
you being a dumbass and failing to code something the program doesn't understand equates to how a plant feels how?
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:55 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
The point there is that the signal (program throwing an error) does not imply pain, just as the signal (emitting a scent to increase survival) does not necessarily imply pain. it could just be a simple in-built evolutionary reaction, just like the error warnings are in-built in a compiler or w/e.
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
jon, what happens in the winter if we never harvest, say, a field of wheat? hmm
hmm indeed
it will die man. and soon! harvesting is the gathering of a mature crop before it dies
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:04 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
The point there is that the signal (program throwing an error) does not imply pain, just as the signal (emitting a scent to increase survival) does not necessarily imply pain. it could just be a simple in-built evolutionary reaction, just like the error warnings are in-built in a compiler or w/e.
maybe you are right, but maybe not. you don't know for certain.
admit plants are more intelligent then people give them credit for.
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
it will die man. and soon! harvesting is the gathering of a mature crop before it dies
yea that's kind of what happens in nature, things die. cows die too, they just have a longer life expectancy, we need to eat them for their meat goes bad,
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
Last edited by Jon; on Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:13 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
The point there is that the signal (program throwing an error) does not imply pain, just as the signal (emitting a scent to increase survival) does not necessarily imply pain. it could just be a simple in-built evolutionary reaction, just like the error warnings are in-built in a compiler or w/e.
maybe you are right, but maybe not. you don't know for certain.
admit plants are more intelligent then people give them credit for.
Even after giving this serious thought, I still am just not able to accept that a potato is more intelligent than a pig, or that I could be wrong to believe it is less cruel to eat a potato. I'm so sorry man, I really tried, but I'm too narrow in my thinking.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:16 am |
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Jon;
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 13966
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i don't think a potato is smarter than a pig. i'm not even making the argument that plants are smarter than animals i was fucking around.. just that plants possess intelligence and are living organisms, kind of the reasons some people don't like to eat meat.
_________________
"i don't have pet peeves, i have major psychotic fucking hatreds"
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:21 am |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
quote:
Originally posted by Jon;
i don't think a potato is smarter than a pig. i'm not even making the argument that plants are smarter than animals i was fucking around.. just that plants possess intelligence and are living organisms, kind of the reasons some people don't like to eat meat.
ok, well, plants are kinda neat and maybe can do more than people realize. if it's still less cruel to eat them than eating a pig (it is), then a vegetarian's world is not exactly shattered by this news, y'know? or really impacted at all. and even if it were, you've still got fungi (which arent plants), fruits (which dont kill the plants and are meant to be eaten), some vegetables, etc etc. so anyway these fascinating new plant facts have pretty much nothing to do with people who dont eat meat.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:28 am |
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Ywfn
Joined: 30 May 2001
Posts: 3833
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Even if you accepted the ridiculous hypothesis that there's an ethical issue with the killing of plants for whatever reason, by consuming meat your indirectly consuming a greater amount of vegetation than if you stuck to eating the plants for nourishment directly.
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:29 am |
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